Comments on: Chaos at the Polling Station! http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:31:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Celeste http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-326068 Celeste Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:31:06 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-326068 I worked as a poll person at the Libaray in Pasadena Feb 2008. We had Many, many voters who had lived at their address for 10 years and more, that were left off the Roster that day. Mostly DEMOCRATS. I helped people fill about 45 Provisional ballots, which was an ENORMOUS amount for a small precint. HMmmmm...? Trickery afoot with the printed rosters? That eve watching the news I found It was happening all over LA. Since we were smart enough to get rid of the Electronic voting Machines (with no paper trail) it seems we are now being attacked in another way. BEING LEFT OFF THE ROSTERS. Provisional Ballot are not counted till after a Decision has already been made and only then if its a close election. This is really BAD. In June I worked again at the polls and when I went to vote This time "I" was left off the Roster. I called the county Registars Office the next day, they assured me I was registered and I should have been on the Roster which meant whoever is printing out the Lists is at fault. After much searching I got ahold of Michael Petrucello of Technical Services by calling (562) 466-1310 and he is now supposedly trying to right the situation. He said he hadn't heard about problems when I told him about the 45 provisional ballots in Feb. I think we'll find that after the Presidential Election the Names left off, will "magically" re-appear back on the Rosters, If I were any of you that were left off the lists, you should check to see with the County Registars if you are registered and if so, and have been left off your precints Roster, Complain, Complain and Complain some more, Lodge complaints on the Hot line Above. Your RIGHTS are being taken from you. Cel I worked as a poll person at the Libaray in Pasadena Feb 2008. We had Many, many voters who had lived at their address for 10 years and more, that were left off the Roster that day. Mostly DEMOCRATS. I helped people fill about 45 Provisional ballots, which was an ENORMOUS amount for a small precint. HMmmmm…?
Trickery afoot with the printed rosters? That eve watching the news I found It was happening all over LA. Since we were smart enough to get rid of the Electronic voting Machines (with no paper trail) it seems we are now being attacked in another way. BEING LEFT OFF THE ROSTERS. Provisional Ballot are not counted till after a Decision has already been made and only then if its a close election. This is really BAD. In June I worked again at the polls and when I went to vote This time “I” was left off the Roster. I called the county Registars Office the next day, they assured me I was registered and I should have been on the Roster which meant whoever is printing out the Lists is at fault. After much searching I got ahold of Michael Petrucello of Technical Services by calling (562) 466-1310 and he is now supposedly trying to right the situation. He said he hadn’t heard about problems when I told him about the 45 provisional ballots in Feb. I think we’ll find that after the Presidential Election the Names left off, will “magically” re-appear back on the Rosters, If I were any of you that were left off the lists, you should check to see with the County Registars if you are registered and if so, and have been left off your precints Roster, Complain, Complain and Complain some more, Lodge complaints on the Hot line Above. Your RIGHTS are being taken from you.
Cel

]]> By: Rob J http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310426 Rob J Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:41:21 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310426 You support an organization which excluded Ron Paul from speaking. This in itself is against science at it's core. Science is the search for truth. All science must include all circumstance. No ommission or fact or possible fact. If by your own action you create an outcome then your science is flawed. You know this!!!!! So don't complain. You brought it on yourself. Let Dr. and I repeat DOCTOR Ron Paul speak. You may not agree with him, but science seeks truth and required all the facts to make a decision. Otherwise you live in belief and religion and not fact. Look to your own for the problem and see your error of observation. You call yourself a scientist? hmmmmmmmmm “..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority to set brush fires in people’s minds.” — Samuel Adams “With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it, nothing can succeed. Consequently he who molds public sentiment goes deeper than he who enacts statutes or pronounces decisions.” — Abraham Lincoln “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” — George Orwell “The state can’t give you free speech, and the state can’t take it away. You’re born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free…” — Utah Phillips quixotic quest You support an organization which excluded Ron Paul from speaking. This in itself is against science at it’s core.
Science is the search for truth. All science must include all circumstance. No ommission or fact or possible fact.
If by your own action you create an outcome then your science is flawed.
You know this!!!!!
So don’t complain. You brought it on yourself. Let Dr. and I repeat DOCTOR Ron Paul speak. You may not agree with him, but science seeks truth and required all the facts to make a decision. Otherwise you live in belief and religion and not fact.
Look to your own for the problem and see your error of observation. You call yourself a scientist? hmmmmmmmmm
“..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority to set brush fires in people’s minds.”
— Samuel Adams
“With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it, nothing can succeed. Consequently he who molds public sentiment goes deeper than he who enacts statutes or pronounces decisions.” — Abraham Lincoln
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” — George Orwell
“The state can’t give you free speech, and the state can’t take it away. You’re born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free…”
— Utah Phillips

quixotic quest

]]> By: Sean http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310309 Sean Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:12:57 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310309 Just what I need... Just what I need…

]]> By: Christopher Hirata http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310308 Christopher Hirata Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:58:18 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310308 Sean, You should contest your parking ticket. Hire a large team of lawyers to argue that metering the parking around the polling place is an unconstitutional poll tax. It might be more expensive than just paying the ticket but it would be a lot more interesting. Sean,

You should contest your parking ticket. Hire a large team of lawyers to argue that metering the parking around the polling place is an unconstitutional poll tax. It might be more expensive than just paying the ticket but it would be a lot more interesting.

]]> By: Maynard Handley http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310263 Maynard Handley Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:03:34 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310263 "I understand that the United States is slowly and painfully making it way toward becoming a functioning modern technological society, and wish it all the best during the difficult transition." But still it has too few facilities where I can go to pasteurize my children! (http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2008/02/selected-minor.html) “I understand that the United States is slowly and painfully making it way toward becoming a functioning modern technological society, and wish it all the best during the difficult transition.”

But still it has too few facilities where I can go to pasteurize my children!
(http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2008/02/selected-minor.html)

]]> By: Tony Smith http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310261 Tony Smith Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:36:22 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310261 Sean, you said that you were voting in "Downtown LA" where there were "About five Democrats for every one Republican". Was it likely that most of the voters there were for Obama? If so, could the difficulties have been at least in part attributed to pro-Clinton "establishment" dirty-trick efforts to reduce the Obama vote? After all, such things enabled Bush to defeat McCain in the key Republican South Carolina primary in 2000. According to an LA Times article on 7 Feb 2008 by Richard C. Paddock "... acting Los Angeles County Registrar Dean Logan said Wednesday that his office will examine more than 94,000 ballots cast by nonpartisan voters to determine how many votes for presidential candidates may have gone uncounted. Logan said he also will try to determine whether the uncounted ballots would make a difference in the way delegates are apportioned between the Democratic presidential candidates and, if so, will seek legal approval to count as many as possible. ... decline-to-state voters in the county ... discovered too late that they were required to mark a bubble on the ballot denoting which party primary they were voting in. Some complained that poll workers told them not to mark the bubble; others said they were unaware of the requirement, which is unique to L.A. County ... Exit polls showed that Sen. Barack Obama had a strong appeal among California voters who defined themselves as independent (regardless of their party registration), leading Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton by 58% to 34% in this category. ..". Tony Smith Sean, you said that you were voting in “Downtown LA” where there were “About five Democrats for every one Republican”.

Was it likely that most of the voters there were for Obama?
If so, could the difficulties have been at least in part attributed to pro-Clinton “establishment” dirty-trick efforts to reduce the Obama vote?
After all,
such things enabled Bush to defeat McCain in the key Republican South Carolina primary in 2000.
According to an LA Times article on 7 Feb 2008 by Richard C. Paddock
“… acting Los Angeles County Registrar Dean Logan said Wednesday that his office will examine more than 94,000 ballots cast by nonpartisan voters to determine how many votes for presidential candidates may have gone uncounted.
Logan said he also will try to determine whether the uncounted ballots would make a difference in the way delegates are apportioned between the Democratic presidential candidates and, if so, will seek legal approval to count as many as possible. …
decline-to-state voters in the county … discovered too late that they were required to mark a bubble on the ballot denoting which party primary they were voting in. Some complained that poll workers told them not to mark the bubble; others said they were unaware of the requirement, which is unique to L.A. County …
Exit polls showed that Sen. Barack Obama had a strong appeal among California voters who defined themselves as independent (regardless of their party registration), leading Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton by 58% to 34% in this category. ..”.

Tony Smith

]]> By: Yvette http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310215 Yvette Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:48:29 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310215 Speaking as someone who's worked as a Cuyahoga County election official (in Ohio)... wow. I am proud to report that that would never fly around here, because Ohio runs a pretty decent system and you need to go to training to be a poll worker before the actual thing. Though there are other problems to be had around here, particularly as it's a swing state so things can matter a lot more. For example, during the 2004 presidential election we were happy in our precinct because no dead people showed up to vote... Speaking as someone who’s worked as a Cuyahoga County election official (in Ohio)… wow. I am proud to report that that would never fly around here, because Ohio runs a pretty decent system and you need to go to training to be a poll worker before the actual thing.

Though there are other problems to be had around here, particularly as it’s a swing state so things can matter a lot more. For example, during the 2004 presidential election we were happy in our precinct because no dead people showed up to vote…

]]> By: Patti http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310209 Patti Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:59:29 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310209 I voted in the Miracle Mile are of LA. I was on the supplemental list, and they tried to give me a provisional ballot. I had to correct them and say that as long as my name was on the list, I got a regular ballot. After a little polite back and forth, they agreed. They also asked for id , which is not required, and I had to correct them on that, too. To be fair, I'm not sure if they were requiring that, or were just asking so they could more easily look up the names by having the id to look at. Mostly I'm glad that for once the CA primary counts for something. I can't believe how stupid our election/voting process is. I voted in the Miracle Mile are of LA. I was on the supplemental list, and they tried to give me a provisional ballot. I had to correct them and say that as long as my name was on the list, I got a regular ballot. After a little polite back and forth, they agreed.

They also asked for id , which is not required, and I had to correct them on that, too. To be fair, I’m not sure if they were requiring that, or were just asking so they could more easily look up the names by having the id to look at.

Mostly I’m glad that for once the CA primary counts for something. I can’t believe how stupid our election/voting process is.

]]> By: Seth http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310198 Seth Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:21:21 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310198 SLC, I do exactly that, from the center of Geneva to CERN. It all depends on where you live. SLC, I do exactly that, from the center of Geneva to CERN. It all depends on where you live.

]]> By: SLC http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310194 SLC Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:11:08 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310194 Re Peggy I realize that the CIT campus and downtown LA are not too far apart. However, it is rather unusual for someone to commute from a downtown area to a suburban location. Re Peggy

I realize that the CIT campus and downtown LA are not too far apart. However, it is rather unusual for someone to commute from a downtown area to a suburban location.

]]> By: Supernova http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310187 Supernova Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:19:35 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310187 I just moved to CO, and tonight I participated in a caucus for the first time. It was somewhat chaotic -- apparently no one expected such a large turnout (though one wonders why not) -- but after they got us all separated into precincts things went quite smoothly. The Clinton folks went over to one side, and the Obama folks went over to the other, and the undecideds and the Gravel supporter stayed in the middle, and then we all counted off and elected delegates to the county convention according to the same proportions. It was fun and neighborly, and I know my vote got counted correctly. (It would have been pretty easy for someone to crash the party, as there was no official check-in -- they simply circulated a list of registered voters and had us sign next to our names. But I suppose they probably do at least compare the total number of votes with the total number of signatures.) The best part was when I heard a guy say that he'd brought his kids because he wanted them to remember being there when their dad cast his vote for Obama. :) I just moved to CO, and tonight I participated in a caucus for the first time. It was somewhat chaotic — apparently no one expected such a large turnout (though one wonders why not) — but after they got us all separated into precincts things went quite smoothly. The Clinton folks went over to one side, and the Obama folks went over to the other, and the undecideds and the Gravel supporter stayed in the middle, and then we all counted off and elected delegates to the county convention according to the same proportions. It was fun and neighborly, and I know my vote got counted correctly. (It would have been pretty easy for someone to crash the party, as there was no official check-in — they simply circulated a list of registered voters and had us sign next to our names. But I suppose they probably do at least compare the total number of votes with the total number of signatures.)

The best part was when I heard a guy say that he’d brought his kids because he wanted them to remember being there when their dad cast his vote for Obama. :)

]]> By: Sean http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310185 Sean Wed, 06 Feb 2008 06:43:34 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310185 Yes! Curtain and enormous lever! In my mind, that is simply how voting booths are meant to be. Yes! Curtain and enormous lever! In my mind, that is simply how voting booths are meant to be.

]]> By: Ben http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310184 Ben Wed, 06 Feb 2008 06:34:43 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310184 My old polling place in Pasadena was up the street in someone's living room. The whole apparatus of democracy is staffed by a small group of civic-minded retirees who probably don't get enough training when our elected reps decide to dink around with the election laws, but that doesn't excuse dysfunction. Oh, and I once voted in a Philadelphia Democratic primary, in somebody's living room, with a candidate's bumper sticker displayed on the sign-in table!!! Voting with a magic marker and optical scan ballot in California and Arizona was much easier than operating a godawful touchscreen machine in Maryland, although nothing is as satisfying as using a big old Northeast machine with a curtain and enormous lever. Ballots are usually designed by state (or county) election departments and maybe there should be a requirement for them to hire consulting graphic designers/usability experts. Or we could just let Steve Jobs design all the voting machines. They'd be elegantly easy to operate, but there'd only be one choice. My old polling place in Pasadena was up the street in someone’s living room. The whole apparatus of democracy is staffed by a small group of civic-minded retirees who probably don’t get enough training when our elected reps decide to dink around with the election laws, but that doesn’t excuse dysfunction. Oh, and I once voted in a Philadelphia Democratic primary, in somebody’s living room, with a candidate’s bumper sticker displayed on the sign-in table!!!

Voting with a magic marker and optical scan ballot in California and Arizona was much easier than operating a godawful touchscreen machine in Maryland, although nothing is as satisfying as using a big old Northeast machine with a curtain and enormous lever.

Ballots are usually designed by state (or county) election departments and maybe there should be a requirement for them to hire consulting graphic designers/usability experts. Or we could just let Steve Jobs design all the voting machines. They’d be elegantly easy to operate, but there’d only be one choice.

]]> By: Lab rooster http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310183 Lab rooster Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:56:01 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310183 Well, if you are crazy enough to vote for the Indian gambling expansion, then I'm glad your vote isn't going to count. :) These people already have more money (and hence more influence) than any other political group in California, and there is no reason to give them more. If we are going to make gambling legal, we should make it legal for everyone and not hand over a monopoly. If we dared to talk about that, the tribes would certainly sign a deal that gave much more of their ``profits" to the state. (I put profits in quotes because they are counted only after every single member of the tribe is paid a salary.) Was the worker actually a volunteer? I thought they were usually paid (they are where I live, although it is a small amount, maybe ~$100 for the training and work). Jeff wrote: "I was told not to worry, however, since we could just use the sample ballots instead!" Sounds very, very fishy. Well, if you are crazy enough to vote for the Indian gambling expansion, then I’m glad your vote isn’t going to count. :) These people already have more money (and hence more influence) than any other political group in California, and there is no reason to give them more. If we are going to make gambling legal, we should make it legal for everyone and not hand over a monopoly. If we dared to talk about that, the tribes would certainly sign a deal that gave much more of their “profits” to the state. (I put profits in quotes because they are counted only after every single member of the tribe is paid a salary.)

Was the worker actually a volunteer? I thought they were usually paid (they are where I live, although it is a small amount, maybe ~$100 for the training and work).

Jeff wrote: “I was told not to worry, however, since we could just use the sample ballots instead!”
Sounds very, very fishy.

]]> By: Lab Lemming http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310176 Lab Lemming Wed, 06 Feb 2008 04:12:44 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310176 Re: update. Dude, that sucks. But look on the bright side, the more provisional ballots there are, the greater the chance that they actually get counted. Re: update.
Dude, that sucks.
But look on the bright side, the more provisional ballots there are, the greater the chance that they actually get counted.

]]> By: Peggy http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310174 Peggy Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:42:55 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310174 The guy ahead of me in line at my polling station who registered just before the deadline who wasn't on the list either. As far as I could tell they gave him a provisional ballot, so you aren't alone. That "I really want my vote to count" box on the LA County ballots is crazy. As a "Decline to State" voter (not to be confused with "Independent Party") who voted in the Demcratic primary, I didn't notice any such requirement on my San Berdoo County ballot. I hope I didn't just miss it. <i>Does Mr. Carroll live in the downtown area and commute to Pasadena?</i> I believe downtown LA and Pasadena are only about 10 miles apart. That's pretty much next door in Southern California terms. At least among the people I know 20+ mile commutes are the rule rather than the exception. The guy ahead of me in line at my polling station who registered just before the deadline who wasn’t on the list either. As far as I could tell they gave him a provisional ballot, so you aren’t alone. That “I really want my vote to count” box on the LA County ballots is crazy. As a “Decline to State” voter (not to be confused with “Independent Party”) who voted in the Demcratic primary, I didn’t notice any such requirement on my San Berdoo County ballot. I hope I didn’t just miss it.

Does Mr. Carroll live in the downtown area and commute to Pasadena? I believe downtown LA and Pasadena are only about 10 miles apart. That’s pretty much next door in Southern California terms. At least among the people I know 20+ mile commutes are the rule rather than the exception.

]]> By: BlogBites. Like sound bites. But without the sound. » Blog Archive » Did I trust the finely-tuned machine I saw before me to successfully check on my registration status? No, I did not. http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310171 BlogBites. Like sound bites. But without the sound. » Blog Archive » Did I trust the finely-tuned machine I saw before me to successfully check on my registration status? No, I did not. Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:28:30 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310171 [...] machine I saw before me to successfully check on my registration status? No, I did not. Chaos at the Polling Station! | Cosmic Variance   « I always saw Knight the same way I see Hannibal Lector from The Silence of the [...] [...] machine I saw before me to successfully check on my registration status? No, I did not. Chaos at the Polling Station! | Cosmic Variance   « I always saw Knight the same way I see Hannibal Lector from The Silence of the [...]

]]> By: Scott H. http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310169 Scott H. Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:11:50 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310169 <i>Does Mr. Carroll live in the downtown area and commute to Pasadena?</i> The phenomenon of living in a different locale than one's place of work is surprisingly common. Does Mr. Carroll live in the downtown area and commute to Pasadena?

The phenomenon of living in a different locale than one’s place of work is surprisingly common.

]]> By: SLC http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310165 SLC Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:44:20 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310165 I am somewhat confused here. It was my understanding that Prof. Carroll is employed by the California Institute of Technology, which the last time I heard, is located in Pasadena, Ca. Does Mr. Carroll live in the downtown area and commute to Pasadena? I am somewhat confused here. It was my understanding that Prof. Carroll is employed by the California Institute of Technology, which the last time I heard, is located in Pasadena, Ca. Does Mr. Carroll live in the downtown area and commute to Pasadena?

]]> By: Hag http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310164 Hag Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:38:14 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/02/05/chaos-at-the-polling-station/#comment-310164 It is quite amazing indeed how the "greatest democracy" in the world has such a poor , archaic voting mechanism! I kid you not that in Brazil the process is quite easier; everybody is initially registered, voting is done in electronic ballots with previous and on the spot id confirmation, very rarely does one have to face queues, etc. Why doesn't your system get modernized?? It is quite amazing indeed how the “greatest democracy” in the world has such a poor , archaic voting mechanism! I kid you not that in Brazil the process is quite easier; everybody is initially registered, voting is done in electronic ballots with previous and on the spot id confirmation, very rarely does one have to face queues, etc. Why doesn’t your system get modernized??

]]>