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We do particle physics because we, or should we say some of us, want to know about the foundations of the universe we exist in. Exploring these questions and maybe getting a few answers elevates us some small step above absurdism.

Lawrence B. Crowell

That’s an unfair demand, because almost nothing we do has any benefits to society anyway. Also, as Samuel Beckett points out in his “Waiting for Godot”, the existence of our society is pointless.

So, given that our lives are meaningless anyway, why not do some particle physics while we live out our lives?

I also see our university system as being flawed, but still all things together, the best in the world.

I’m French by nationality, and I wouldn’t want to work anywhere else other than the US university system (barring exceptions like CERN, which is more or less 60% American anyway and very culturally integrated)

Hi Chanda: I wasn’t talking about permanent positions. I’ve always found it interesting that the postdocs in the USA come from all over the world, whereas little Americans make a postdoc outside the US, and if then likely in England or Canada. Of course, restrictions apply etc, esp. at CERN. I couldn’t support this with any numbers, just my impression, so maybe I’m mistaken. But I think it might be partly due to lacking programs in this directions. Either way, I was suggesting given the job situation it would maybe be a good idea to support such overseas research. I don’t know much about the EU immigration though. (I know Germany isn’t easy to get in, but those who keep pointing this out to me I like to ask to please compare the German population density to the Canadian/US one, plus they get a lot of immigrants from the South and East who apply for asylum).

The political and social environment are of course further reasons why the US loses people. I know several gay couples who wouldn’t consider living in the US, I know others who say they don’t want their children to grow up there, and again others who just say they just can’t tolerate the political situation altogether. The problem with that is that the country loses the smartest people first, which makes the situation even worse. Best,

B.

My larger point was that borders create a problem in terms of sending people to the best places possible. On the one hand, I understand the preference for people at home. But since the US doesn’t seem to have laws like that, US citizens are automatically disadvantaged. And this creates problems for people who happen to be in love with & married to the wrong person, whether they happen to be from an undesirable nation or gender identity.

In conclusion, politics seems to interfere with scientific progress in a lot of different ways.

Chanda, you can try to get a temporary job first and then learn the language. Many employees at Dutch universities are foreigners who do not speak Dutch.

Dutch is indeed a difficult language. So much so that Dutch people who spend just a few years abroad find that they can’t write in the Dutch language very well when they return.

At the first lesson of a physics course I was following at university, the Dutch professor told that he would switch to English from time to time because he had forgotten the names of may Dutch words after his stay in the US.

B - I agree that’s a good idea. It’s unfortunate that the US & Canada are willing to fully fund international students who come to their universities, but it’s virtually impossible for someone from outside the EU to pay for an education there or get a job there … I have spent a lot of time thinking about this because until US immigration laws change, I am basically exiled to a country that recognizes my relationship with my girlfriend. Since I am a US citizen that basically means Canada (after I have gotten residency) because it’s virtually impossible for a non-EU citizen to get a permanent job in Europe.

Again politics (and homophobia) gets in the way of research happening the way it should …

Either way, I wanted to add that the long term perspective of these budget cuts doesn’t look good. The people who are most dedicated to their job are the ones a country loses most easily. In a decade from now there will be people missing in the relevant positions to pass on knowledge to the next generation. At this point it will require a lot of effort to get scientists come back. Germany has run into this problem, now they try to convince people to come back, and it isn’t an easy task.

The smart move at this point would be to invest money in international exchange programs. I.e. let people esp the younger ones (grad students, postdocs) go to where they want to do their research and where they find the best circumstances, but on a scholarship or some program. It will make it more likely they will a) stay in the field and b) come back. Hopefully the situation has improved by then. Though it would require a shift from competition towards collaboration.

Best,

B.

Chanda - getting me to speak worse English than I already do would be some accomplishment. (”,)

Spaz comes from spastic which refers to the movements of people with
certain specific mental and/or physical disabilities. I know the meaning has to some degree been divorced from this origin, but I still feel that one should be careful how one uses words like this. It could be particularly tricky for a non-native speaker.

H