Comments on: Physics Envy http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:31:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Seed's Daily Zeitgeist: 6/15/2007 - General Science http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-289738 Seed's Daily Zeitgeist: 6/15/2007 - General Science Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:24:43 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-289738 [...] Physics Envy Are physicists better poker players than mathematicians? [...] [...] Physics Envy Are physicists better poker players than mathematicians? [...]

]]> By: beajerry http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286910 beajerry Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:13:10 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286910 It's all about the poker-face in the end. It’s all about the poker-face in the end.

]]> By: Sean http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286550 Sean Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:13:22 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286550 Matt, trust me, if everyone came to appreciate my quantum-poker analogy, the total amount of understanding in the world would go up, not down. Rock, I had exactly the same book idea. Obviously someone will end up writing it, the idea is overdetermined. That doesn't mean anyone will buy it. Matt, trust me, if everyone came to appreciate my quantum-poker analogy, the total amount of understanding in the world would go up, not down.

Rock, I had exactly the same book idea. Obviously someone will end up writing it, the idea is overdetermined. That doesn’t mean anyone will buy it.

]]> By: Matt http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286415 Matt Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:41:35 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286415 "Dave, the invocation of quantum mechanics is purely for PR purposes; it’s really all about classical probability." Ah, the inappropriate invocation of quantum mechanics for PR purposes is making me dizzy! Isn't that best left to <a href="http://www.whatthebleep.com/" rel="nofollow">these guys</a>? “Dave, the invocation of quantum mechanics is purely for PR purposes; it’s really all about classical probability.”

Ah, the inappropriate invocation of quantum mechanics for PR purposes is making me dizzy! Isn’t that best left to these guys?

]]> By: Josh http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286369 Josh Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:59:44 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286369 AH, the amateur tournament. Those running the WSOP really need to cut down on letting any Joe Schmoe on the street join the tournament if he can front the cash. Not to say that there aren't plenty of intelligent people who can figure out good strategies, but I'd much rather see a Dan Negreanu vs. Johnny Chan showdown at the end than this year's luckiest amateur vs. this year's next luckiest amateur showdown. Maybe institute a minor leagues system? Earn your pinstripes before playing in the majors. AH, the amateur tournament. Those running the WSOP really need to cut down on letting any Joe Schmoe on the street join the tournament if he can front the cash. Not to say that there aren’t plenty of intelligent people who can figure out good strategies, but I’d much rather see a Dan Negreanu vs. Johnny Chan showdown at the end than this year’s luckiest amateur vs. this year’s next luckiest amateur showdown.
Maybe institute a minor leagues system? Earn your pinstripes before playing in the majors.

]]> By: Dylan http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286119 Dylan Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:23:28 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286119 He appears to have done rather poorly - so instead of envy, you physics boys can crow still louder about your man Michael Binger's conquest last year. He appears to have done rather poorly - so instead of envy, you physics boys can crow still louder about your man Michael Binger’s conquest last year.

]]> By: Rock Howard http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286117 Rock Howard Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:13:15 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286117 When I learned to play poker back at CalTech we had a saying which was "The cards change!" This quip was reserved for occasions where someone whined about not staying in to hit some draw. The idea, of course, is that you want to make the right decision given the situation at hand and not dwell on the "coulda woulda shoulda" of the hand as it actually plays out. A true Quantum Physics concept at work! I actually created a book outline for "Quantum Poker" that combines this concept and a few other related concepts with some novel ideas for randomizing your play. (Humans are generally pretty bad at randomizing their actions, but injecting some randomness into your game definitely helps your poker results.) While I am a winning player over my poker "career", I haven't come close to building up a serious bank roll or winning a major tournament. Otherwise I might get serious about finishing my book concept. Feel free to let me know if you think this is a book that has to be written. Personally I think it would sell about 50 copies, but maybe I am not thinking straight about this. When I learned to play poker back at CalTech we had a saying which was “The cards change!” This quip was reserved for occasions where someone whined about not staying in to hit some draw. The idea, of course, is that you want to make the right decision given the situation at hand and not dwell on the “coulda woulda shoulda” of the hand as it actually plays out. A true Quantum Physics concept at work!

I actually created a book outline for “Quantum Poker” that combines this concept and a few other related concepts with some novel ideas for randomizing your play. (Humans are generally pretty bad at randomizing their actions, but injecting some randomness into your game definitely helps your poker results.)

While I am a winning player over my poker “career”, I haven’t come close to building up a serious bank roll or winning a major tournament. Otherwise I might get serious about finishing my book concept. Feel free to let me know if you think this is a book that has to be written. Personally I think it would sell about 50 copies, but maybe I am not thinking straight about this.

]]> By: Ian B Gibson http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286030 Ian B Gibson Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:35:46 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286030 The thing about the WSOP in particular is that since it has ballooned in popularity over the last few years, the bad players now so far outnumber the good players that one of them will almost inevitably win the main event every year from now on, through sheer weight of numbers. Observe the string of nobodies who've taken the title in recent years, basked in their brief moment of fame, then disappeared back into the obscurity from whence they came. So if you're planning on testing your hypothesis with real money, I'd suggest entering some of the less popular tournaments, or better yet, avoid tournaments altogether and concentrate on regular games. The thing about the WSOP in particular is that since it has ballooned in popularity over the last few years, the bad players now so far outnumber the good players that one of them will almost inevitably win the main event every year from now on, through sheer weight of numbers. Observe the string of nobodies who’ve taken the title in recent years, basked in their brief moment of fame, then disappeared back into the obscurity from whence they came.

So if you’re planning on testing your hypothesis with real money, I’d suggest entering some of the less popular tournaments, or better yet, avoid tournaments altogether and concentrate on regular games.

]]> By: Jeff Harvey http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286027 Jeff Harvey Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:34:24 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286027 OK Mr. poker-quantum-mechanic. This summer, in Chicago. Me and the boys will be waiting for you. And I know you like to test out your theories, but leave the cat alone. It could get messy otherwise. OK Mr. poker-quantum-mechanic. This summer, in Chicago. Me and
the boys will be waiting for you.

And I know you like to test out your theories, but leave the cat alone.
It could get messy otherwise.

]]> By: Sean http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286012 Sean Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:07:54 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286012 Sure. Bring it on, brane-boy. Sure. Bring it on, brane-boy.

]]> By: Jeff Harvey http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286009 Jeff Harvey Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:52:34 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-286009 Care to put some money on that corollary? Care to put some money on that corollary?

]]> By: Count Iblis http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285990 Count Iblis Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:07:11 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285990 And if we live in a multiverse, then the superposition really exists. There are then an infinte number of poker games where you have the same cards while the opponents have different cards. And if we live in a multiverse, then the superposition really exists. There are then an infinte number of poker games where you have the same cards while the opponents have different cards.

]]> By: Sean http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285982 Sean Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:50:12 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285982 Dave, the invocation of quantum mechanics is purely for PR purposes; it's really all about classical probability. But thinking of your opponents as being described by a state vector is actually pretty useful. Dave, the invocation of quantum mechanics is purely for PR purposes; it’s really all about classical probability. But thinking of your opponents as being described by a state vector is actually pretty useful.

]]> By: Dave Bacon http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285969 Dave Bacon Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:26:38 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285969 In my experience, the thing about mathematically sophisticated players (who don't have much other poker experience) is that they calculate odds and so end up putting too much emphasis on straight odds calculations. On the other hand, give them a class in game theory, and watchout! BTW, in your quantum analogy, I suspect that you could get away with a classical probabilistic model just as well, although things like "contextuality" seem certainly to be important in poker. A good question: can entanglement allow for impoved coluding strategies in poker? Entanglement can be used to communicate, so technically it's not cheat :) In my experience, the thing about mathematically sophisticated players (who don’t have much other poker experience) is that they calculate odds and so end up putting too much emphasis on straight odds calculations. On the other hand, give them a class in game theory, and watchout!

BTW, in your quantum analogy, I suspect that you could get away with a classical probabilistic model just as well, although things like “contextuality” seem certainly to be important in poker. A good question: can entanglement allow for impoved coluding strategies in poker? Entanglement can be used to communicate, so technically it’s not cheat :)

]]> By: lylebot http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285950 lylebot Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:11:18 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285950 Approximating models of people's behavior is something all humans do naturally. You don't have to be a physicist to be good at that---frankly, I suspect scientists are <i>worse</i> at it on average, considering the higher rates of autism and Asperger's among them. Approximating models of people’s behavior is something all humans do naturally. You don’t have to be a physicist to be good at that—frankly, I suspect scientists are worse at it on average, considering the higher rates of autism and Asperger’s among them.

]]> By: Sean http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285949 Sean Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:11:04 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285949 No, the measurements only happen when someone folds/calls/bets. The point is that all of your opponents are in a superposition of states, each of which is straightforwardly calculable given the measure on the space of hands and a model of the opponent. No, the measurements only happen when someone folds/calls/bets. The point is that all of your opponents are in a superposition of states, each of which is straightforwardly calculable given the measure on the space of hands and a model of the opponent.

]]> By: Aggie http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285934 Aggie Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:47:02 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285934 Hi Sean - Is your poker-quantum mechanics analogy something along the lines of a projective measurement being made once all the cards are put down on the table? Hi Sean - Is your poker-quantum mechanics analogy something along the lines of a projective measurement being made once all the cards are put down on the table?

]]> By: Quest » Blog Archive » Physics Envy http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285931 Quest » Blog Archive » Physics Envy Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:40:35 +0000 http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/06/13/physics-envy/#comment-285931 [...] Оригинал сообщения от TPR тут… [...] [...] Оригинал сообщения от TPR тут… [...]

]]>