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	<title>Comments on: The Physics of Imaginary Things</title>
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	<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jim Kakalios</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-165186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Kakalios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 00:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-165186</guid>
		<description>Scott asked:

Are we better off reading science-fiction by people like Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke who were knowledgeable about science?

I would say, Yes.  Provided you have a sense of what parts are correct science and which parts are fiction, then its a painless way to learn. 

The comic book writers and pulp fiction writers from the 30's through the 60's were vast storehouses of trivia and arcana (not sure what the difference is, actually).  They would use all sorts of obscure facts as the plot points or McGuffins around which the story would be constructed.  Consequently, in a natural way, the reader would be exposed to "strange but true"facts that would not ordinarily come up in everyday conversation, or their classrooms, for that matter.

But more to the point, reading Silver Age comic books from the 50's and 60's would be a great way to learn how to think like a scientist.  The superhero would be challenged by the villain, or ensnared in some sort of death trap, and would have to find a clever and novel use of their superpowers in order to outwit the villain.  We know the rules - powers, vulnerabilities, etc., and we're not allowed to cheat (the Flash can't escape from a giant block of ice in which he in entombed by Captain Cold (who, by the way, was not a real Captain)  using heat vision, but he *could* vibrate back and forth and high frequency, transferring his kinetic energy to the ice, melting it.

Which is the same spirit of scientific research.  We know the rules, (E and M, QM), we have a unique problem (high Tc superconductivity) and we have to come up with a novel (or else it won't be publishable) solution.  and we're not allowed to cheat (no extra dimensions without experimental proof!).

You'd be surprised, though perhaps not, by the number of individuals at comic book conventions who work in high tech industries and are huge fans of real science.  

Excelsior (after all, today IS Stan Lee's birthday!).

Now I have to go rewatch the trailer for next summers Fantastic Four film.

Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott asked:</p>
<p>Are we better off reading science-fiction by people like Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke who were knowledgeable about science?</p>
<p>I would say, Yes.  Provided you have a sense of what parts are correct science and which parts are fiction, then its a painless way to learn. </p>
<p>The comic book writers and pulp fiction writers from the 30&#8217;s through the 60&#8217;s were vast storehouses of trivia and arcana (not sure what the difference is, actually).  They would use all sorts of obscure facts as the plot points or McGuffins around which the story would be constructed.  Consequently, in a natural way, the reader would be exposed to &#8220;strange but true&#8221;facts that would not ordinarily come up in everyday conversation, or their classrooms, for that matter.</p>
<p>But more to the point, reading Silver Age comic books from the 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s would be a great way to learn how to think like a scientist.  The superhero would be challenged by the villain, or ensnared in some sort of death trap, and would have to find a clever and novel use of their superpowers in order to outwit the villain.  We know the rules - powers, vulnerabilities, etc., and we&#8217;re not allowed to cheat (the Flash can&#8217;t escape from a giant block of ice in which he in entombed by Captain Cold (who, by the way, was not a real Captain)  using heat vision, but he *could* vibrate back and forth and high frequency, transferring his kinetic energy to the ice, melting it.</p>
<p>Which is the same spirit of scientific research.  We know the rules, (E and M, QM), we have a unique problem (high Tc superconductivity) and we have to come up with a novel (or else it won&#8217;t be publishable) solution.  and we&#8217;re not allowed to cheat (no extra dimensions without experimental proof!).</p>
<p>You&#8217;d be surprised, though perhaps not, by the number of individuals at comic book conventions who work in high tech industries and are huge fans of real science.  </p>
<p>Excelsior (after all, today IS Stan Lee&#8217;s birthday!).</p>
<p>Now I have to go rewatch the trailer for next summers Fantastic Four film.</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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		<title>By: randform &#187; Blog Archive &#187;</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-165125</link>
		<dc:creator>randform &#187; Blog Archive &#187;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-165125</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Un cÃ³ctel de juegos y fÃ­sica: pozos gravitatorios, fuerzas centrÃ­fugas, y astronaves en apuros &#171; La Singularidad Desnuda</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-164911</link>
		<dc:creator>Un cÃ³ctel de juegos y fÃ­sica: pozos gravitatorios, fuerzas centrÃ­fugas, y astronaves en apuros &#171; La Singularidad Desnuda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-164911</guid>
		<description>[...] Sean Carroll acaba de publicar el artÃ­culo nÃºmero 1,000 en su excelente blog Cosmic Variance (Â¡felicidades Sean!), y con ocasiÃ³n del evento nos comenta algunas cosas divertidas. En particular me ha gustado mucho un juego on-line llamado &#8220;Gravity&#8220;. El juego es simple, pero adictivo: tenemos que fijar la posiciÃ³n y velocidad iniciales de una partÃ­cula, la cual se halla inmersa en el campo gravitatorio de uno o varios cuerpos masivos. El objetivo es que la trayectoria de la partÃ­cula (que se verÃ¡ lÃ³gicamente afectada por la atracciÃ³n gravitatoria de los otros cuerpos) le permita evitar colisionar con otros objetos durante el mayor tiempo posible. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sean Carroll acaba de publicar el artÃ­culo nÃºmero 1,000 en su excelente blog Cosmic Variance (Â¡felicidades Sean!), y con ocasiÃ³n del evento nos comenta algunas cosas divertidas. En particular me ha gustado mucho un juego on-line llamado &#8220;Gravity&#8220;. El juego es simple, pero adictivo: tenemos que fijar la posiciÃ³n y velocidad iniciales de una partÃ­cula, la cual se halla inmersa en el campo gravitatorio de uno o varios cuerpos masivos. El objetivo es que la trayectoria de la partÃ­cula (que se verÃ¡ lÃ³gicamente afectada por la atracciÃ³n gravitatoria de los otros cuerpos) le permita evitar colisionar con otros objetos durante el mayor tiempo posible. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-164902</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-164902</guid>
		<description>Are we better off reading science-fiction by people like Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke who were knowledgeable about science?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we better off reading science-fiction by people like Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke who were knowledgeable about science?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Schmit</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-164466</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Schmit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 04:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-164466</guid>
		<description>Jim, what a funny coincidence.  My father mentioned that he received your book for Christmas...he's an EE and loves to sit around and keep his mind active by learning, or RElearning, new concepts (and he used to be a big comic book buff), so he was excited to get it.  I wound up with Lisa Randall's book (which I've been meaning to purchase for some time now anyway), but I'll have to take a look at your book the next time I make a trip back home for "shits and giggles."  Small world...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, what a funny coincidence.  My father mentioned that he received your book for Christmas&#8230;he&#8217;s an EE and loves to sit around and keep his mind active by learning, or RElearning, new concepts (and he used to be a big comic book buff), so he was excited to get it.  I wound up with Lisa Randall&#8217;s book (which I&#8217;ve been meaning to purchase for some time now anyway), but I&#8217;ll have to take a look at your book the next time I make a trip back home for &#8220;shits and giggles.&#8221;  Small world&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Kakalios</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-163532</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Kakalios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 00:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-163532</guid>
		<description>Well, of course I'm biased, but I would argue that we ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY use fiction when teaching physics.  The reason that so many students are turned off by standard introductory physics classes is that the fiction we use is terribly dull.

You drop a mass from a tower - but ignore air resistance.  A fiction.  You shoot an arrow from a cliff 200 meters above ground, at an angle of 37.5 degrees with the horizontal, and want to know the time before the projectile strikes the ground.  A fiction.  No one in recorded hiostory has ever cared how long it takes the arrow to reach the ground. I've been doing professional physics for over 20 years, man and boy, and I've NEVER needed to use this in the lab (perhaps because my lab is in the sub-basement?).

Students always complain: When am I ever going to use this in my real life?  Surprisingly enough, when in my classes I use superhero examples to explicate physics principles, those same students NEVER wonder when they will use this information in the real life.  The all must have plans, post-graduation, that involve spandex and capes.  And knowing how many mad scientists there are out there (you may call them String Theorists, but this is not the time for semantics), I'd have to say this is a good thing.

But as I say, I'm biased.  In addition to blurbing Jennifer's book, I've written one of my own (The Physics of Superheroes - who says this isn't the Marvel Age of shameless plugs?).  

Seriously, I've done many many interviewws with print, radio and TV.  I've spoken with VERY intelligent people who want to know how air bags save lives, but preface the conversation with statements such as: I'm a Dummy.  I won't get it.

So, if you start talking about Spider-Man's girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, and explain how Newton's second law explains why she died despite the fact that Spidey caught her in his webbing as she fell from the top fo the George Washington Bridge, and that the reason was that the time available to stop her was too short, so the necessary force ot arrest her momentum was too large AND this is what airbags do (increase the time available for braking, in addition to spreading the force over a larger area) well, this they get!

Because these students, and reporters and readers of books about Buffy will not become scientists or engineers.  But they will be citizens and voters the rest of their lives.  So any little bit we can do can only help.

Face front, True Believer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, of course I&#8217;m biased, but I would argue that we ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY use fiction when teaching physics.  The reason that so many students are turned off by standard introductory physics classes is that the fiction we use is terribly dull.</p>
<p>You drop a mass from a tower - but ignore air resistance.  A fiction.  You shoot an arrow from a cliff 200 meters above ground, at an angle of 37.5 degrees with the horizontal, and want to know the time before the projectile strikes the ground.  A fiction.  No one in recorded hiostory has ever cared how long it takes the arrow to reach the ground. I&#8217;ve been doing professional physics for over 20 years, man and boy, and I&#8217;ve NEVER needed to use this in the lab (perhaps because my lab is in the sub-basement?).</p>
<p>Students always complain: When am I ever going to use this in my real life?  Surprisingly enough, when in my classes I use superhero examples to explicate physics principles, those same students NEVER wonder when they will use this information in the real life.  The all must have plans, post-graduation, that involve spandex and capes.  And knowing how many mad scientists there are out there (you may call them String Theorists, but this is not the time for semantics), I&#8217;d have to say this is a good thing.</p>
<p>But as I say, I&#8217;m biased.  In addition to blurbing Jennifer&#8217;s book, I&#8217;ve written one of my own (The Physics of Superheroes - who says this isn&#8217;t the Marvel Age of shameless plugs?).  </p>
<p>Seriously, I&#8217;ve done many many interviewws with print, radio and TV.  I&#8217;ve spoken with VERY intelligent people who want to know how air bags save lives, but preface the conversation with statements such as: I&#8217;m a Dummy.  I won&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>So, if you start talking about Spider-Man&#8217;s girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, and explain how Newton&#8217;s second law explains why she died despite the fact that Spidey caught her in his webbing as she fell from the top fo the George Washington Bridge, and that the reason was that the time available to stop her was too short, so the necessary force ot arrest her momentum was too large AND this is what airbags do (increase the time available for braking, in addition to spreading the force over a larger area) well, this they get!</p>
<p>Because these students, and reporters and readers of books about Buffy will not become scientists or engineers.  But they will be citizens and voters the rest of their lives.  So any little bit we can do can only help.</p>
<p>Face front, True Believer!</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron F.</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-163421</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 22:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-163421</guid>
		<description>Wow... this gravity game is WAY too addictive. ^_^ In the n = 1, 2, and 3 levels, I like to put the atom into orbit around a reasonably large body that's pretty far away from the other ones; the timer tends to run out before perturbations from the other bodies really kick in. In the heavier levels, I've had surprisingly good success with just dropping the particle in places that look like Lagrange points, which can slow down the action long enough to run down the timer, but I haven't come up with a consistently good strategy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230; this gravity game is WAY too addictive. ^_^ In the n = 1, 2, and 3 levels, I like to put the atom into orbit around a reasonably large body that&#8217;s pretty far away from the other ones; the timer tends to run out before perturbations from the other bodies really kick in. In the heavier levels, I&#8217;ve had surprisingly good success with just dropping the particle in places that look like Lagrange points, which can slow down the action long enough to run down the timer, but I haven&#8217;t come up with a consistently good strategy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-163398</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 21:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-163398</guid>
		<description>I blame you for my complete lack of productivity thanks to the gravity game.

(By the way, they cheated : I put my little particle in orbit around single body in Level 1, and they ended the level with a timer, else I would have racked up an infinite number of points...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame you for my complete lack of productivity thanks to the gravity game.</p>
<p>(By the way, they cheated : I put my little particle in orbit around single body in Level 1, and they ended the level with a timer, else I would have racked up an infinite number of points&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Chinmaya Sheth</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-163313</link>
		<dc:creator>Chinmaya Sheth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-163313</guid>
		<description>I think TV-physics is great. One of my favorites was when PBS use to air re-runs of the 60's Julius Sumner Miller, I couldn't find anything on it except clips:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/whyisitso/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think TV-physics is great. One of my favorites was when PBS use to air re-runs of the 60&#8217;s Julius Sumner Miller, I couldn&#8217;t find anything on it except clips:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/whyisitso/" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/whyisitso/</a></p>
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		<title>By: rillian</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-163081</link>
		<dc:creator>rillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-163081</guid>
		<description>I agree it's fun to figure these things out. &lt;a href="http://isthis4real.com/orbit.xml" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here's a more robust example&lt;/a&gt;.

I think it's supposed to be Newtonian dynamics, modulo the boundary effects. The lack on energy conservation looks like it's just a bad integration scheme. Look at the scattering when the planets "collide". There's a random increase in their kinetic energy, just like what you get from a fixed-timestep integration scheme. The non-conic-section orbits can also be explained this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree it&#8217;s fun to figure these things out. <a href="http://isthis4real.com/orbit.xml" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a more robust example</a>.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s supposed to be Newtonian dynamics, modulo the boundary effects. The lack on energy conservation looks like it&#8217;s just a bad integration scheme. Look at the scattering when the planets &#8220;collide&#8221;. There&#8217;s a random increase in their kinetic energy, just like what you get from a fixed-timestep integration scheme. The non-conic-section orbits can also be explained this way.</p>
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		<title>By: spyder</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/12/26/the-physics-of-imaginary-things/#comment-162976</link>
		<dc:creator>spyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 19:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=1065#comment-162976</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;After all, they will tell you, how can you learn anything about science by studying fiction? Science is all about the real world! It has nothing to say about fake worlds that someone just made up.&lt;/i&gt;

When Berube can spend two days and 20,000+ words deconstructing &lt;a href="http://www.michaelberube.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1129/" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;i&gt;2001, a Space Odyssey&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, a book on the physics of a vampire slayer is certainly well within the norm of non-fictional efforts in examining and describing our culture.    

As for the games, there are indeed numerous ongoing efforts in all the academic disciplines to develop vidgames that provide substantial educational opportunities for our future k-12 generations.  The early researches are quite illuminating, particularly games that use "expert" system code to facilitate the learning of grammar and syntax, as well as geographical relationships of world and national histories.  Can the physics and chemistry of climate change be far behind???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>After all, they will tell you, how can you learn anything about science by studying fiction? Science is all about the real world! It has nothing to say about fake worlds that someone just made up.</i></p>
<p>When Berube can spend two days and 20,000+ words deconstructing <a href="http://www.michaelberube.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1129/" rel="nofollow"><i>2001, a Space Odyssey</i></a>, a book on the physics of a vampire slayer is certainly well within the norm of non-fictional efforts in examining and describing our culture.    </p>
<p>As for the games, there are indeed numerous ongoing efforts in all the academic disciplines to develop vidgames that provide substantial educational opportunities for our future k-12 generations.  The early researches are quite illuminating, particularly games that use &#8220;expert&#8221; system code to facilitate the learning of grammar and syntax, as well as geographical relationships of world and national histories.  Can the physics and chemistry of climate change be far behind???</p>
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