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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s Go Screw Up Some Other Planets!</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Shanth</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17579</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17579</guid>
		<description>Somehow the image worked in the preview but not in the final post, so I'm posting the link to the &lt;a href="http://www.transmogrifier.org/ch/comics/94/01/09.gif" rel="nofollow"&gt;Calvin &#38; Hobbes comic strip&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow the image worked in the preview but not in the final post, so I&#8217;m posting the link to the <a href="http://www.transmogrifier.org/ch/comics/94/01/09.gif" rel="nofollow">Calvin &amp; Hobbes comic strip</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanth</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17578</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17578</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of this</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of this</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17577</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17577</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that a lot of Stephen Hawking's statements have gotten a bit misinterpreted. All he's saying is that it would be provident to get the human race out onto other planets as a bit of an insurance policy. He knows there's no reason there has to be life on earth - it's just one speck amongst lifeless specks, and there are lots of things that could go wrong and make it just as lifeless as all the others. We've become "science fictioned" into thinking that the universe around us isn't real somehow, or it's "manageable" - but it's as real as rock and super hostile.  A large solar flare, a gamma ray burster, a nearby supernova, the proverbial errant comet - it goes on and on - all real - any could wipe us out instantly - no amount of F15s or cool technology would do a movie rescue on us. Spread the risk, get out somewhere else, and he's not saying migration - he knows the numbers - 1 space shuttle launch = 5 astronauts to 125 miles up, 1/2 of 1% of the USA to Mars, 1.5 million people hmm that's about 300,000 shuttle launches.

Seems the home-grown risks are more under our control but insurance still not a bad idea. I see that a lot of Florida home owners can no longer get hurricane insurance. The possibility of tipping the greenhouse effect into irreversible runaway seems the most probable of disasters and Stephen's right to alert us - the scientists who are actually doing research in the climate area are freaked, but have to be calm and reasonable and not overplay the worst case scenarios. I expect to be made seriously uncomfortable by global warming - won't be a nice disaster I can watch on TV - I, and most of us are going to be directly affected - scarey!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that a lot of Stephen Hawking&#8217;s statements have gotten a bit misinterpreted. All he&#8217;s saying is that it would be provident to get the human race out onto other planets as a bit of an insurance policy. He knows there&#8217;s no reason there has to be life on earth - it&#8217;s just one speck amongst lifeless specks, and there are lots of things that could go wrong and make it just as lifeless as all the others. We&#8217;ve become &#8220;science fictioned&#8221; into thinking that the universe around us isn&#8217;t real somehow, or it&#8217;s &#8220;manageable&#8221; - but it&#8217;s as real as rock and super hostile.  A large solar flare, a gamma ray burster, a nearby supernova, the proverbial errant comet - it goes on and on - all real - any could wipe us out instantly - no amount of F15s or cool technology would do a movie rescue on us. Spread the risk, get out somewhere else, and he&#8217;s not saying migration - he knows the numbers - 1 space shuttle launch = 5 astronauts to 125 miles up, 1/2 of 1% of the USA to Mars, 1.5 million people hmm that&#8217;s about 300,000 shuttle launches.</p>
<p>Seems the home-grown risks are more under our control but insurance still not a bad idea. I see that a lot of Florida home owners can no longer get hurricane insurance. The possibility of tipping the greenhouse effect into irreversible runaway seems the most probable of disasters and Stephen&#8217;s right to alert us - the scientists who are actually doing research in the climate area are freaked, but have to be calm and reasonable and not overplay the worst case scenarios. I expect to be made seriously uncomfortable by global warming - won&#8217;t be a nice disaster I can watch on TV - I, and most of us are going to be directly affected - scarey!</p>
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		<title>By: Truckle</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17534</link>
		<dc:creator>Truckle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17534</guid>
		<description>I've not much to argue with but there is one concept missing from those who are dispraging of Hawking's comments.  Life boat.  We put them and require them on vehicles and the Earth can be viewed as just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not much to argue with but there is one concept missing from those who are dispraging of Hawking&#8217;s comments.  Life boat.  We put them and require them on vehicles and the Earth can be viewed as just that.</p>
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		<title>By: Don H.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17535</link>
		<dc:creator>Don H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17535</guid>
		<description>Let's start with the indisputable:  As of right now all it would take is one rock of sufficient mass, impacting on the earth, to wipe out our entire species (and probably a good many other species along with us).  As long as we have just this one home that statement will always be true.  Just one rock, and as anyone who has come afoul of them before can tell you, rocks have no mercy.  The idea of extraplanetary colonization is to make that statement untrue.  To be sure there are other biological and artificial threats to humankind as well which Mr. Hawking listed.

Why is the human species worth preserving?  Well as of right now we are the only known sentient technological species that we are aware of.  For better or worse only we would stand a ghost of a chance to both detect and to redirect the rock.

In order to colonize another world one of two things would have to be done.  Either we would have to change the world so that it would support our current form of life or we would have to change our form of life so that the new world could support it.  (I've always been a big fan of terraforming Venus personally, but that may just be me.)  With advances in genetics perhaps changing our current form of life might be the easier of those two options.

On optimistic days I would say that humans working together can do anything that it is possible to do.  Including colonizing other worlds.

On pessimistic days I picture the last two men, waist deep in an ocean of raw sewage, locked in a life or death struggle over the last bit of edible food.

Whichever of these visions is closer to the truth it's likely that I won't be there for the finale.  Unless we get hit by the rock of course.  That could happen anytime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s start with the indisputable:  As of right now all it would take is one rock of sufficient mass, impacting on the earth, to wipe out our entire species (and probably a good many other species along with us).  As long as we have just this one home that statement will always be true.  Just one rock, and as anyone who has come afoul of them before can tell you, rocks have no mercy.  The idea of extraplanetary colonization is to make that statement untrue.  To be sure there are other biological and artificial threats to humankind as well which Mr. Hawking listed.</p>
<p>Why is the human species worth preserving?  Well as of right now we are the only known sentient technological species that we are aware of.  For better or worse only we would stand a ghost of a chance to both detect and to redirect the rock.</p>
<p>In order to colonize another world one of two things would have to be done.  Either we would have to change the world so that it would support our current form of life or we would have to change our form of life so that the new world could support it.  (I&#8217;ve always been a big fan of terraforming Venus personally, but that may just be me.)  With advances in genetics perhaps changing our current form of life might be the easier of those two options.</p>
<p>On optimistic days I would say that humans working together can do anything that it is possible to do.  Including colonizing other worlds.</p>
<p>On pessimistic days I picture the last two men, waist deep in an ocean of raw sewage, locked in a life or death struggle over the last bit of edible food.</p>
<p>Whichever of these visions is closer to the truth it&#8217;s likely that I won&#8217;t be there for the finale.  Unless we get hit by the rock of course.  That could happen anytime.</p>
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		<title>By: TorbjÃ¶rn Larsson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17576</link>
		<dc:creator>TorbjÃ¶rn Larsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17576</guid>
		<description>Cynthia,
"However, if a species has to drastically reduce its traits in order to survive in a highly sub-optimum, hostile environment, this species - in the process of "trait-downsizing" - is at extreme risk for significantly losing key features to its quality of life."

That is partly another question, since we were loking at survivability. However, I think organisms may easily loose some tools in the tool box. Not many though. Look at the Hox box - those genes that decides the body structure have been  kept after their inception.

"Let me pose a question: What collection of traits would you be willing to sacrifice in order to enhance your survivability outside the Biosphere/Geosphere of planet Earth? Moreover, how far would you be willing to delete your traits - at the same time - sacrificing quality of life before deciding that life is no longer worth living?"

This is your idea, not mine. I observed that evolution doesn't stop, so we will change both on Earth and in any colonies. Our descendants will be adapted (or die) to live harmoniously with whatever "nature" surrounds them. If that will be a much poorer life they will compare with history and think they were shortchanged. They will however find life worth living - all living creatures do.

Seriously, I find this line of comments as a flailing with unprobable outcomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynthia,<br />
&#8220;However, if a species has to drastically reduce its traits in order to survive in a highly sub-optimum, hostile environment, this species - in the process of &#8220;trait-downsizing&#8221; - is at extreme risk for significantly losing key features to its quality of life.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is partly another question, since we were loking at survivability. However, I think organisms may easily loose some tools in the tool box. Not many though. Look at the Hox box - those genes that decides the body structure have been  kept after their inception.</p>
<p>&#8220;Let me pose a question: What collection of traits would you be willing to sacrifice in order to enhance your survivability outside the Biosphere/Geosphere of planet Earth? Moreover, how far would you be willing to delete your traits - at the same time - sacrificing quality of life before deciding that life is no longer worth living?&#8221;</p>
<p>This is your idea, not mine. I observed that evolution doesn&#8217;t stop, so we will change both on Earth and in any colonies. Our descendants will be adapted (or die) to live harmoniously with whatever &#8220;nature&#8221; surrounds them. If that will be a much poorer life they will compare with history and think they were shortchanged. They will however find life worth living - all living creatures do.</p>
<p>Seriously, I find this line of comments as a flailing with unprobable outcomes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ijon Tichy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17575</link>
		<dc:creator>Ijon Tichy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17575</guid>
		<description>Moot question, because it will never happen. Our biological shells are too fragile and our technology will never be powerful enough to protect them; artificial intelligence will fail to reach anywhere near human levels; interstellar travel will remain nothing more than a dream for devotees of sci-fi trash; human psychology and culture will always remain at virtually the same level, far below what is needed to undertake something as spatio-temporally vast as interstellar colonisation. We are heading towards a technological plateau (rather than a singularity) which will not be a barren desert -- after all, we are a creative species -- but a rich and nasty world that constantly invents and destroys, refines and reduces, a sort of a technological jogging-on-the-spot. The bootstrapping process by which we have advanced much of our science and technology will fail due to a combination of inherent human limitations and the fundamental limits of physical reality. You can only stack so many turtles on top of each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moot question, because it will never happen. Our biological shells are too fragile and our technology will never be powerful enough to protect them; artificial intelligence will fail to reach anywhere near human levels; interstellar travel will remain nothing more than a dream for devotees of sci-fi trash; human psychology and culture will always remain at virtually the same level, far below what is needed to undertake something as spatio-temporally vast as interstellar colonisation. We are heading towards a technological plateau (rather than a singularity) which will not be a barren desert &#8212; after all, we are a creative species &#8212; but a rich and nasty world that constantly invents and destroys, refines and reduces, a sort of a technological jogging-on-the-spot. The bootstrapping process by which we have advanced much of our science and technology will fail due to a combination of inherent human limitations and the fundamental limits of physical reality. You can only stack so many turtles on top of each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynthia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17525</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17525</guid>
		<description>Torbjorn,

According to your link, a species will delete specific traits in order to improve its overall survivability to a particular environment in question. However, if a species has to drastically reduce its traits in order to survive in a highly sub-optimum, hostile environment, this species - in the process of "trait-downsizing" - is at extreme risk for significantly losing key features to its quality of life. Let me pose a question: What collection of traits would you be willing to sacrifice in order to enhance your survivability outside the Biosphere/Geosphere of planet Earth? Moreover, how far would you be willing to delete your traits - at the same time -  sacrificing quality of life before deciding that life is no longer worth living?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torbjorn,</p>
<p>According to your link, a species will delete specific traits in order to improve its overall survivability to a particular environment in question. However, if a species has to drastically reduce its traits in order to survive in a highly sub-optimum, hostile environment, this species - in the process of &#8220;trait-downsizing&#8221; - is at extreme risk for significantly losing key features to its quality of life. Let me pose a question: What collection of traits would you be willing to sacrifice in order to enhance your survivability outside the Biosphere/Geosphere of planet Earth? Moreover, how far would you be willing to delete your traits - at the same time -  sacrificing quality of life before deciding that life is no longer worth living?</p>
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		<title>By: TorbjÃ¶rn Larsson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17532</link>
		<dc:creator>TorbjÃ¶rn Larsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17532</guid>
		<description>Cynthia,
I don't see the connection between your argument on evolution and the viability of space colonies.

The evolution argument is also wrong. It is a common misconception. Evolution has no inherent direction. Selection for fitness can mean simplifying both genotype and phenotype. ( http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB932.html ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynthia,<br />
I don&#8217;t see the connection between your argument on evolution and the viability of space colonies.</p>
<p>The evolution argument is also wrong. It is a common misconception. Evolution has no inherent direction. Selection for fitness can mean simplifying both genotype and phenotype. ( <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB932.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB932.html</a> ).</p>
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		<title>By: TorbjÃ¶rn Larsson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17533</link>
		<dc:creator>TorbjÃ¶rn Larsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/15/lets-go-screw-up-some-other-planets/#comment-17533</guid>
		<description>Thomas,
Perhaps we will have to come up with a measure of "attention". My, also unsupported, claim is based on observations of discussion within the Planetary Society. Many aren't as interested in the probes and their support goes mainly to manned exploration.

You are looking at short term budgetary concerns. NASA would probably be much smaller without the manned part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas,<br />
Perhaps we will have to come up with a measure of &#8220;attention&#8221;. My, also unsupported, claim is based on observations of discussion within the Planetary Society. Many aren&#8217;t as interested in the probes and their support goes mainly to manned exploration.</p>
<p>You are looking at short term budgetary concerns. NASA would probably be much smaller without the manned part.</p>
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