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	<title>Comments on: Lost In Translation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, V - Asymptotia</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-128556</link>
		<dc:creator>More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, V - Asymptotia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-128556</guid>
		<description>[...] The point is that the story being told now in the press is simply the one that journalists and editors want to tell now - a David vs Goliath story. It has little or nothing to do with what is actually going on in the science research. The journalist -George Johnson- does a good job of pointing out supporting evidence for this by going through a number of stories from a decade ago and looking at their structure. (You can see the video archive, as I did, on the web here.) He points out many things, such as the fact that journalists don&#8217;t actually write their own headlines for the story and sometimes these have only a loose connection to the actual words written in the body of the article. (There were expressions of surprise from the assembled scientists at this - I find myself amazed at the very fact that they were surprised - Have they not been paying attention to any of this over the last several years?) He points out many other things about the processes involved in getting these stories to appear in the newspaper as well. Worth listening to, if you have not heard this sort of thing before. (Have a read of a report that I and another blogger did on a similar topic, presented by science writer KC Cole in a physics department colloquium a while back.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The point is that the story being told now in the press is simply the one that journalists and editors want to tell now - a David vs Goliath story. It has little or nothing to do with what is actually going on in the science research. The journalist -George Johnson- does a good job of pointing out supporting evidence for this by going through a number of stories from a decade ago and looking at their structure. (You can see the video archive, as I did, on the web here.) He points out many things, such as the fact that journalists don&#8217;t actually write their own headlines for the story and sometimes these have only a loose connection to the actual words written in the body of the article. (There were expressions of surprise from the assembled scientists at this - I find myself amazed at the very fact that they were surprised - Have they not been paying attention to any of this over the last several years?) He points out many other things about the processes involved in getting these stories to appear in the newspaper as well. Worth listening to, if you have not heard this sort of thing before. (Have a read of a report that I and another blogger did on a similar topic, presented by science writer KC Cole in a physics department colloquium a while back.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-17014</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-17014</guid>
		<description>I like a lot that those lectures have been created to allow the Colloquia to be seen by a broader audience on the Web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like a lot that those lectures have been created to allow the Colloquia to be seen by a broader audience on the Web.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16182</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16182</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeff!

Thanks for blogging it and some of the other colloquia (I peeked).... this is great that there are other bloggers lurking in the Physics and Astronomy Department!

Come back here and read and comment from time to time.

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff!</p>
<p>Thanks for blogging it and some of the other colloquia (I peeked)&#8230;. this is great that there are other bloggers lurking in the Physics and Astronomy Department!</p>
<p>Come back here and read and comment from time to time.</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nuttall</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16180</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nuttall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16180</guid>
		<description>I'm the person who posted the account of the the colloquium linked to above; I was very surprised to see my post linked to here.  Not that I mind it being linked to, by any means; I just wasn't expecting it.

(For the record, as for who I am, I'm a physics grad student at USC who's...been in school way too long.  I'm trying to finish up my doctoral dissertation (my research adviser is &lt;a HREF="http://physics.usc.edu/Faculty/Judge/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Dr. Darrell Judge&lt;/A&gt;), but it's taking me much longer than it should...though admittedly a large part of the reason for that is because I'm trying to do too much else at the same time and not putting in as much time on my research as I should...still, I hope to be done by the end of the summer.)

Regarding the "you're always out of context" bit--well, that was a direct quote, but I'm afraid I may have taken it, um, out of context.  All of the points she expanded on in much more detail in her talk than the brief summaries I wrote in my post, of course, and yes, that quote did make more sense at the end of the rest of what she'd said.  I think Dr. Johnson's explanation better captures what that point was about.  She certainly wasn't saying that context wasn't at all important, and if that's the impression I gave by just quoting that one sentence, &lt;I&gt;mea culpa&lt;/I&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the person who posted the account of the the colloquium linked to above; I was very surprised to see my post linked to here.  Not that I mind it being linked to, by any means; I just wasn&#8217;t expecting it.</p>
<p>(For the record, as for who I am, I&#8217;m a physics grad student at USC who&#8217;s&#8230;been in school way too long.  I&#8217;m trying to finish up my doctoral dissertation (my research adviser is <a HREF="http://physics.usc.edu/Faculty/Judge/" rel="nofollow">Dr. Darrell Judge</a>), but it&#8217;s taking me much longer than it should&#8230;though admittedly a large part of the reason for that is because I&#8217;m trying to do too much else at the same time and not putting in as much time on my research as I should&#8230;still, I hope to be done by the end of the summer.)</p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;you&#8217;re always out of context&#8221; bit&#8211;well, that was a direct quote, but I&#8217;m afraid I may have taken it, um, out of context.  All of the points she expanded on in much more detail in her talk than the brief summaries I wrote in my post, of course, and yes, that quote did make more sense at the end of the rest of what she&#8217;d said.  I think Dr. Johnson&#8217;s explanation better captures what that point was about.  She certainly wasn&#8217;t saying that context wasn&#8217;t at all important, and if that&#8217;s the impression I gave by just quoting that one sentence, <i>mea culpa</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16173</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16173</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I think in that case the reporter was not as accurate as could have been. That was her last sentence...... she actually said a lot more on context. The point of the last sentence (the one quoted) is that there is a limit to how far you should go in chasing down the issue of being quoted out of context..... you have to let it go at some point...within reason.

Diminishing returns and all that.

Indeed, she did say more than just that sentence.

Cheers,

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I think in that case the reporter was not as accurate as could have been. That was her last sentence&#8230;&#8230; she actually said a lot more on context. The point of the last sentence (the one quoted) is that there is a limit to how far you should go in chasing down the issue of being quoted out of context&#8230;.. you have to let it go at some point&#8230;within reason.</p>
<p>Diminishing returns and all that.</p>
<p>Indeed, she did say more than just that sentence.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Armitage</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16171</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Armitage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16171</guid>
		<description>Although I really appreciate KC Cole's tongue-in-cheek bullet point advice found  &lt;a href="http://alun-clewe.livejournal.com/172014.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (Lie, Cheat, Steal, Dare to be Stupid etc. etc.), helpful hint #7 seems to be particurally ill-advised.  I'm not sure if the quote "The truth is, you're always out of context...so get used to it." is an accurate transcription, but this seems to be exactly the wrong message.  In fact 'context' is everything!

Scientists doing their jobs properly will be very careful about the words they use - both to each other and to the 'public' at large (for instance see the example set in &lt;a href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/27/everything-i-know-about-the-universe-i-did-not-learn-from-newspaper-headlines/" rel="nofollow"&gt; Sean's post&lt;/a&gt; pointing out the WMAP's PI Chuck Bennett's careful choice of words).  Indeed, words express how we think and clarity of language begats clarity of thought... but it is not just the words themselves, but also their context and the cavets and qualifiers that we add that are important.  Quoting out of context changes meaning and of course ... meaning is everything.

To just dismissely wave one's hand and say one is always out of context misses the point.  Seldom is what any of us say 100% correct and covers all possibilities, but we do our best.  Context being an elusive thing means that &lt;em&gt;everyone&lt;/em&gt; is always out of context and therefore there is no reason that a reporter has any less right or reponsibility to 'context' than scientists themselves.

My personal experience on a few isolated occasions of giving comments is in having my caveats dropped and my quote bracketed by phrases that I didn't ascribe to or believe.   In essence I was endorsing views that didn't hold at all.  If context is meaning then why quote me at all?

I wasn't at the KC's talk though, so perhaps I am taking all the above out of context!  I did always enjoy reading her when I lived in LA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I really appreciate KC Cole&#8217;s tongue-in-cheek bullet point advice found  <a href="http://alun-clewe.livejournal.com/172014.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> (Lie, Cheat, Steal, Dare to be Stupid etc. etc.), helpful hint #7 seems to be particurally ill-advised.  I&#8217;m not sure if the quote &#8220;The truth is, you&#8217;re always out of context&#8230;so get used to it.&#8221; is an accurate transcription, but this seems to be exactly the wrong message.  In fact &#8216;context&#8217; is everything!</p>
<p>Scientists doing their jobs properly will be very careful about the words they use - both to each other and to the &#8216;public&#8217; at large (for instance see the example set in <a href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/27/everything-i-know-about-the-universe-i-did-not-learn-from-newspaper-headlines/" rel="nofollow"> Sean&#8217;s post</a> pointing out the WMAP&#8217;s PI Chuck Bennett&#8217;s careful choice of words).  Indeed, words express how we think and clarity of language begats clarity of thought&#8230; but it is not just the words themselves, but also their context and the cavets and qualifiers that we add that are important.  Quoting out of context changes meaning and of course &#8230; meaning is everything.</p>
<p>To just dismissely wave one&#8217;s hand and say one is always out of context misses the point.  Seldom is what any of us say 100% correct and covers all possibilities, but we do our best.  Context being an elusive thing means that <em>everyone</em> is always out of context and therefore there is no reason that a reporter has any less right or reponsibility to &#8216;context&#8217; than scientists themselves.</p>
<p>My personal experience on a few isolated occasions of giving comments is in having my caveats dropped and my quote bracketed by phrases that I didn&#8217;t ascribe to or believe.   In essence I was endorsing views that didn&#8217;t hold at all.  If context is meaning then why quote me at all?</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t at the KC&#8217;s talk though, so perhaps I am taking all the above out of context!  I did always enjoy reading her when I lived in LA.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16158</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16158</guid>
		<description>I attended the "Science Is Sexy" panel during San Francisco's Litquake festival last October. It was a full house at the Commonwealth Club downtown, at least 300 people, I'd say. The panel included Richard Rhodes, who won the Pulitzer Prize for &lt;i&gt;The Making of the Atomic Bomb&lt;/i&gt; and Michael Pollan, who wrote &lt;i&gt;The Botany of Desire&lt;/i&gt; (and who also had an interesting article in this week's &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; magazine about his experience hunting).

Anyway, Michael Pollan said that the way he gets people to read about science is not to tell them explicitly that he's writing about it. He writes about gardening and food and then slips the science into the narrative where it comes up. So he chooses the stealth approach to get around barriers that people might reflexively put up against reading what they perceive to be another boring science story. It's kind of like hiding the pill in the Gainesburger when you give your dog medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended the &#8220;Science Is Sexy&#8221; panel during San Francisco&#8217;s Litquake festival last October. It was a full house at the Commonwealth Club downtown, at least 300 people, I&#8217;d say. The panel included Richard Rhodes, who won the Pulitzer Prize for <i>The Making of the Atomic Bomb</i> and Michael Pollan, who wrote <i>The Botany of Desire</i> (and who also had an interesting article in this week&#8217;s <i>New York Times</i> magazine about his experience hunting).</p>
<p>Anyway, Michael Pollan said that the way he gets people to read about science is not to tell them explicitly that he&#8217;s writing about it. He writes about gardening and food and then slips the science into the narrative where it comes up. So he chooses the stealth approach to get around barriers that people might reflexively put up against reading what they perceive to be another boring science story. It&#8217;s kind of like hiding the pill in the Gainesburger when you give your dog medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16147</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16147</guid>
		<description>All very important stuff.

Some time ago I was interviewed by Robert Krulwich of NPR.  He has several fantastic features among them having a real fascination for science and being a great storyteller.  He suggested that storytelling can be a gateway drug to deeper things - things like an appreciation for science that starts to spark a bit of curiosity.  

The NovaNow series takes this approach and does an excellent job.  For an example of what can be done on an audio blog (and I think that this approach needs to be audio or video to reach a general audience) consider &lt;a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5307047" rel="nofollow"&gt;his piece&lt;/a&gt; on NPR's &lt;em&gt;All Things Considered&lt;/em&gt; last night (listen rather than read).  

Find some fascinating results (not necessarily your own current work ... there are great stories from the 18th century!) and develop a narrative.  If you aren't a great story teller, find one and collaborate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very important stuff.</p>
<p>Some time ago I was interviewed by Robert Krulwich of NPR.  He has several fantastic features among them having a real fascination for science and being a great storyteller.  He suggested that storytelling can be a gateway drug to deeper things - things like an appreciation for science that starts to spark a bit of curiosity.  </p>
<p>The NovaNow series takes this approach and does an excellent job.  For an example of what can be done on an audio blog (and I think that this approach needs to be audio or video to reach a general audience) consider <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5307047" rel="nofollow">his piece</a> on NPR&#8217;s <em>All Things Considered</em> last night (listen rather than read).  </p>
<p>Find some fascinating results (not necessarily your own current work &#8230; there are great stories from the 18th century!) and develop a narrative.  If you aren&#8217;t a great story teller, find one and collaborate.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/03/29/lost-in-translation/#comment-16140</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=728#comment-16140</guid>
		<description>I went to a similar colloquium that KC gave at Case Western quite a few years ago when I was a postdoc there. It was excellent - she does a great job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to a similar colloquium that KC gave at Case Western quite a few years ago when I was a postdoc there. It was excellent - she does a great job.</p>
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