True creativity often starts where language ends-Arthur Koestler

This is as applicable to our search for wordings, as it is for science/math?

but i am glad that some are able to describe their own-

and i can’t remember if i said this before- here. but i am quite glad that feelings/intuition are not “just” feelings/intuition anymore.

i would say, how great it is, that we can accept these things as valid means of exploration/expression.
and scientific exploration at that-(ie not “just” artistic)
historically, women have been put down for acknowledging their intuition and living by their feelings. and men, it seems, have caused plenty of trouble by “proving” their powerful feelings in more “authentic” ways.
acceptance becomes a huge step to be able to make-

and i also was thinking- re plato- what if living a more “conscious” life meant listening more to the unconscious mind? not only paying attention to our exterior surroundings but the inner workings of the mind-which, of course, is how we come to have these brilliant people describing new and complicated theories for us-they have listened to their inner voices and were able to bring them forth!

so we have valid need to respect and trust both the intuitive and the reasoning minds-thats the hard part-i think-to give both an even hand(so to speak)-even if one works oriented in one way or the other.

do you know where and when, you are more likely to have intuitive thoughts?
does anyone really feel that they truly trust them?

Although when i was a kid i would have called it intuition when i had an idea because i was not old enough to figure out where it came from, looking back now with a broader mind i can easily see how the intuitive ideas, i had as a kid, came to me.

I think everyone might agree on this point already?

Intuition can not stand alone

Working from a inductive/deductive curve, in whatever medium…..

Maybe thats why its so hard to grasp because the people that use intuition just accept it for what it is and don’t question it

KNowing that it might arise from the unconscious(where is that) would not relegate it to something not feasible? We might know when these conditions are best, would not have allowed this process, to work/not work?

Art Mirrors Physics Mirrors Artby Stephen G. Brush

The French mathematician Henri Poincaré provided inspiration for both Einstein and Picasso. Einstein read Poincaré’s Science and Hypothesis (French edition 1902, German translation 1904) and discussed it with his friends in Bern. He might also have read Poincaré’s 1898 article on the measurement of time, in which the synchronization of clocks was discussed–a topic of professional interest to Einstein as a patent examiner. Picasso learned about Science and Hypothesis indirectly through Maurice Princet, an insurance actuary who explained the new geometry to Picasso and his friends in Paris. At that time there was considerable popular fascination with the idea of a fourth spatial dimension, thought by some to be the home of spirits, conceived by others as an “astral plane” where one can see all sides of an object at once. The British novelist H. G. Wells caused a sensation with his book The Time Machine (1895, French translation in a popular magazine 1898-99), where the fourth dimension was time, not space.

Besides intuition is a feeling and feelings themselves are a reaction to something else. Intuition can not stand alone, there is always something that causes it. Just because some people are unable to explain intuition doesn’t mean it just happens on its own.

Maybe thats why its so hard to grasp because the people that use intuition just accept it for what it is and don’t question it enough to come to a reasonable solution as to what has caused them to feel that way.

I think you are right on all those points…just that, we now know I think, how we got there?

I think that’s my point. Perplexed, as to what it is if away from it and reasoned sure….

that the lure(foci) if sent/naturally goes too, the unconscious(water)is a symbol…. we are never really away from the process….because you know there is part of us we access for the solution?

so do we agree on how we got there, or is this still undefined?

since we all agree there is a thing called intuition-yes?

and if he is weighted by his problems(or distracted by earthly concerns) so much so that then, reasoning becomes more involved-further away from intuit.

maybe to the point -where all he can do, is throw in the line-and see if anything grabs on.

and if he catches anything- he is intuitive.
and if not- he had a nice time fishing.

Okay how about this one.

He enacts fishing, and really is thinking about the problems he had encountered. The lure is sent deep into the water, and from it, hopefully a solution to the problem.

The probabilties of ever solving was greatly increased from throwing the line in, yet, out of it, a fish may have solve the problem in a moment?

don’t know how to reach that other state of mind-i would assume very few people do-and i would assume it is the opposite; of the effect of gravity.

you might have never been freer to accept the conditions of fishing, had you realized that the events in this enactment, would have never allowed such solutions?

But if gravity was the increased effect of emotive solution induced anger/unhappiness, then what chance had we about “happiness”

It’s an intriguing bend to what was without recourse and thought, chance related, having gotten there without ever knowing how.

Induction/deduction takes on new meaning then?

This sets up the conditions for what “creativity” might have meantby creating the conditions for more information to flow. The conditions had to be “conducive” in the first place.

Had his troubles overtaken him(weighted him), do you think the solution ever feasible? Waiting is part of the fun, enjoying a beautiful day, on “calm waters”?

his research remark reminds me of my dad-he goes fishing-and he always says that if he actually caught something it couldn’t be called “fishing” anymore.

yes i assume the only truly consistent thing about time is that it is moving forward…….everything else about time is relative……….how its spent-where it goes, etc….

i don’t know how to reach that other state of mind-i would assume very few people do-and i would assume it is the opposite; of the effect of gravity.

please feel free to find any pun that may be construed-

If general relativity as a model created an elevated state of mind in regards to what that model could produce(gravity), then would we have a change in perception? Having found something to be fundamentlaly true? Having something, that indeed had us look at “time” very differently?

Intuitively it took work to get there by Einstein, yet the flash of insight is still significant as time passes?:)Without the geometry behind it, this could not be done? Thanks Grossman.

On the Effects of External Sensory Input on Time Dilation.” A. Einstein, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton, N.J.

Abstract: When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it’s longer than any hour. That’s relativity.

As the observer’s reference frame is crucial to the observer’s perception of the flow of time, the state of mind of the observer may be an additional factor in that perception. I therefore endeavored to study the apparent flow of time under two distinct sets of mental states.

Methods: I sought to acquire a hot stove and a pretty girl. Unfortunately, getting a hot stove was prohibitive, as the woman who cooks for me has forbidden me from getting anywhere near the kitchen. However, I did manage to surreptitiously obtain a 1924 Manning-Bowman and Co. chrome waffle iron, which is a reasonable equivalent of a hot stove for this experiment, as it can attain a temperature of a very high degree. Finding the pretty girl presented more of a problem, as I now live in New Jersey. I know Charlie Chaplin, having attended the opening of his 1931 film City Lights in his company, and so I requested that he set up a meeting with his wife, movie star Paulette Goddard, the possessor of a shayna punim, or pretty face, of a very high degree.

Discussion: I took the train to New York City to meet with Miss Goddard at the Oyster Bar in Grand Central Terminal. She was radiant and delightful. When it felt to me as if a minute had passed, I checked my watch to discover that a full 57 minutes had actually transpired, which I rounded up to one hour. Upon returning to my home, I plugged in the waffle iron and allowed it to heat up. I then sat on it, wearing trousers and a long white shirt, untucked. When it seemed that over an hour had gone by, I stood up and checked my watch to discover that less than one second had in fact passed. To maintain unit consistency for the descriptions of the two circumstances, I rounded up to one minute, after which I called a physician.

Conclusion: The state of mind of the observer plays a crucial role in the perception of time.

Einstein scholars disagree, but the pretty girl/hot stove experiment also may have led to another of his pithy remarks, namely: “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” Then again, Einstein was a bit of a wag. Consider his explanation of wireless communication: “The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The wireless is the same, only without the cat.” This quote reportedly kept Schrödinger awake well past his bedtime.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0001AA08-864C-1D4

Happy/sad, and the duration of time in either case, can best represent itself in the nature of our constitutional and experiential making? Oui! NOn?

i’m glad to see there is more to consider-
re antonio-(i admit i got turned off when he started to describe intuitive thoughts as good or bad-so i may have been steaming instead of listening for a bit)
but here’s the thing-if intuitive thought is something that is spontanaeous-there is no reasoning to get there…it just is.

the reasoning is described or confirmed in afterthought……

i always think of the unconscious mind as being conflicted-partially random-as in dreams, or preprogrammed as in instinct.
if the unconscious mind is unconcerned with rational and controlled thought-are our dreams our brains rebellion?
reminding us that we are not in control of it?
is intuition where they merge? the conscious and unconscious?
and how about the reasoning of the unconscious mind?
is that possible? is that what antonio is trying to find out?
(a cry for help here!)

and plato-usually i think that the budhists describe that the way to kindness is understanding…..and understanding is what science is about-right?!

usually they are reffering to social/emotional conditions etc….
but what if science is going to prove the existence of a higher state of being?

which may become your-”heart wisdom weighted in perspective circumstance”

i want to hear more about the stove and the hot girl……

and the clear mind is often called emptiness….oh my…….

you are reminding me i have a book on budhism called “stumbling towards enlightenment”…i better go reread….

The role of emotion in the intuitive played a big role in Damasio’s discussion. He talked a lot about “emotional reasoning”, which I think can translate a bit to “feelings” in the way you might ahve in mind. So you’re probably right on track.

Cheers,

-cvj