<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Black Scientists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Show and Tell - Asymptotia</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-209496</link>
		<dc:creator>Show and Tell - Asymptotia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 06:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-209496</guid>
		<description>[...] Well, it is the last day of Black History Month and I am behind on answering my traditional emails. As I said last year (with a few modifications):  Pretty soon after February starts, the deluge of email I get every day gets enhanced a bit by emails from students from all over America. I become part of an assignment, you see. It seems that these students are instructed to find a black scientist and write something about them and do a presentation to their class about them. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Well, it is the last day of Black History Month and I am behind on answering my traditional emails. As I said last year (with a few modifications):  Pretty soon after February starts, the deluge of email I get every day gets enhanced a bit by emails from students from all over America. I become part of an assignment, you see. It seems that these students are instructed to find a black scientist and write something about them and do a presentation to their class about them. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Me</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-22048</link>
		<dc:creator>Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 06:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-22048</guid>
		<description>A.G.--I am female in Harvard Physics.  Lubos' views are far from the norm here.

It would be foolish to base an admissions decision on any one professor, although you should choose your advisor very carefully--and a reputation for racism or sexism is a red flag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A.G.&#8211;I am female in Harvard Physics.  Lubos&#8217; views are far from the norm here.</p>
<p>It would be foolish to base an admissions decision on any one professor, although you should choose your advisor very carefully&#8211;and a reputation for racism or sexism is a red flag.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Sermon &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-20844</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sermon &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 04:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-20844</guid>
		<description>[...] I used this as a lead in to the conversation about science. Why are black people not participating in it in numbers, like everyone else? Do they not know that they are &#8220;allowed to&#8221;? That they have just as much a right to do so? I explained why it is so important to take part in the greater society by doing so. Etc., etc. I won&#8217;t go on, since I&#8217;ve had this discussion here a lot here (see these links, for example: here and here), but you see where I was going with this, I hope&#8230;. I ended up giving directions to the trailhead to Mount Wilson, and explaining about the wonderful stuff that&#8217;s going to be in the new Griffith Park observatory, and there was some conversation about church trips to see the telescopes&#8230;. so look out Sierra Madre, there might be some new faces in your &#8216;hood! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I used this as a lead in to the conversation about science. Why are black people not participating in it in numbers, like everyone else? Do they not know that they are &#8220;allowed to&#8221;? That they have just as much a right to do so? I explained why it is so important to take part in the greater society by doing so. Etc., etc. I won&#8217;t go on, since I&#8217;ve had this discussion here a lot here (see these links, for example: here and here), but you see where I was going with this, I hope&#8230;. I ended up giving directions to the trailhead to Mount Wilson, and explaining about the wonderful stuff that&#8217;s going to be in the new Griffith Park observatory, and there was some conversation about church trips to see the telescopes&#8230;. so look out Sierra Madre, there might be some new faces in your &#8216;hood! [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cosmic Variance Goes To Church &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-19841</link>
		<dc:creator>Cosmic Variance Goes To Church &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-19841</guid>
		<description>[...] He seemed stunned that I was not only receptive to his opening gambit, I was fluent in it myself! I reached over and shook his hand and said &#8220;I write about this issue all the time! How can I help?!&#8221; (You, dear reader, know that I write about this, of course. See for example my posts entitled &#8220;Black Scientists&#8220;, &#8220;Encounters&#8220;, and &#8220;The Black Middle Classes&#8220;.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] He seemed stunned that I was not only receptive to his opening gambit, I was fluent in it myself! I reached over and shook his hand and said &#8220;I write about this issue all the time! How can I help?!&#8221; (You, dear reader, know that I write about this, of course. See for example my posts entitled &#8220;Black Scientists&#8220;, &#8220;Encounters&#8220;, and &#8220;The Black Middle Classes&#8220;.) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14219</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 04:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14219</guid>
		<description>Quibbler,

I should have answered you earlier concerning the terms "inexperienced" and "racist".

We are all bigots. None of us has been perfectly cleaned of our bigotries to be able to point a finger elsewhere and call someone else "racist" or "sexist" or "classist" when we are all suffering from it. To use the term "racist" is to assume some purity exists by the person pointing the finger.

It further falsely implies that when certain rhetoric disappears  and all access is open then racism has died...Today's gang bangers take advantage of that every day. They hurl racial, sexual, and class insults at each other every day on school buses and then hang around each other at night. They find fighting and beating each other up as a way of expressing affection. I busdrive them to school every day. This gives me an experience that others do not have, but does not make me clean of all my prejudices..It merely brings out others I didn't know I had to the surface.

"Inexperience" implies that, like a trade, a long journey is ahead and this term is more fitting with science. The term "racist" is more fitting to the smacks of religion...the concept of good and evil...the false world of halos and horns..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quibbler,</p>
<p>I should have answered you earlier concerning the terms &#8220;inexperienced&#8221; and &#8220;racist&#8221;.</p>
<p>We are all bigots. None of us has been perfectly cleaned of our bigotries to be able to point a finger elsewhere and call someone else &#8220;racist&#8221; or &#8220;sexist&#8221; or &#8220;classist&#8221; when we are all suffering from it. To use the term &#8220;racist&#8221; is to assume some purity exists by the person pointing the finger.</p>
<p>It further falsely implies that when certain rhetoric disappears  and all access is open then racism has died&#8230;Today&#8217;s gang bangers take advantage of that every day. They hurl racial, sexual, and class insults at each other every day on school buses and then hang around each other at night. They find fighting and beating each other up as a way of expressing affection. I busdrive them to school every day. This gives me an experience that others do not have, but does not make me clean of all my prejudices..It merely brings out others I didn&#8217;t know I had to the surface.</p>
<p>&#8220;Inexperience&#8221; implies that, like a trade, a long journey is ahead and this term is more fitting with science. The term &#8220;racist&#8221; is more fitting to the smacks of religion&#8230;the concept of good and evil&#8230;the false world of halos and horns..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous This Time</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14183</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous This Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14183</guid>
		<description>Dear A. G.

Sorry -- hit submit by accident. 

I wanted to add my 2c worth that Lubos's opinions and demeanour are not representative of the wider Harvard faculty in physics (indeed, of the people I know there, I suspect they would all be vehemently opposed to them) and I would not let the presence of a single assistant professor significantly sway your decisiont to attend a given graduate school (in either direction).
 
The best way to get a feeling for a department that has offered you a place in its graduate program is to visit it in person, and talk to other graduate students. If they seem miserable (for whatever reason), then *that* is a red flag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear A. G.</p>
<p>Sorry &#8212; hit submit by accident. </p>
<p>I wanted to add my 2c worth that Lubos&#8217;s opinions and demeanour are not representative of the wider Harvard faculty in physics (indeed, of the people I know there, I suspect they would all be vehemently opposed to them) and I would not let the presence of a single assistant professor significantly sway your decisiont to attend a given graduate school (in either direction).</p>
<p>The best way to get a feeling for a department that has offered you a place in its graduate program is to visit it in person, and talk to other graduate students. If they seem miserable (for whatever reason), then *that* is a red flag.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous This Time</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14182</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous This Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14182</guid>
		<description>Dear A.G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear A.G.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: NL</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14168</link>
		<dc:creator>NL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14168</guid>
		<description>Making a decision on grad school based on LM is the height of foolishness. 

Not just because it has nothing to do with the rest of the department, but, being an assistant prof, he will not necessarily be there for the duration of your grad school career...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Making a decision on grad school based on LM is the height of foolishness. </p>
<p>Not just because it has nothing to do with the rest of the department, but, being an assistant prof, he will not necessarily be there for the duration of your grad school career&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14156</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 05:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14156</guid>
		<description>A. G.

I probably am not in the best position to advise you on graduate school but I would suggest that you should not let Lubos affect your decision about Harvard. I hope some of the other folks here who are closer to the academic community will speak up and echo the sentiment that he is a sample space of one and not a representative of the environment at that university. Best of luck with your decision. 

Elliot

P. S.

Running a blog and making obnoxious, arrogant and demeaning comments requires no special academic qualification or talent. It can be done with very little technical knowledge in oh ... about 30 minutes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A. G.</p>
<p>I probably am not in the best position to advise you on graduate school but I would suggest that you should not let Lubos affect your decision about Harvard. I hope some of the other folks here who are closer to the academic community will speak up and echo the sentiment that he is a sample space of one and not a representative of the environment at that university. Best of luck with your decision. </p>
<p>Elliot</p>
<p>P. S.</p>
<p>Running a blog and making obnoxious, arrogant and demeaning comments requires no special academic qualification or talent. It can be done with very little technical knowledge in oh &#8230; about 30 minutes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A.G.</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14149</link>
		<dc:creator>A.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14149</guid>
		<description>I gotta tell you, graduate school decisions on admissions are tricklin' into my mailbox, and LuboÅ¡ Motl has been my main experience of Harvard up to this point. I am not comfortable with the idea of enrolling there if the prevailing culture is exemplified by his tirades. It has nothing to do with his views on IQ, because I only stand to benefit by his views. I just want to do science without having to worry that I'm going to be impeded at every career milestone by similar conflict, obnoxiousness, arrogance, and demeaning comments.

Can someone tell me whether this is common in Cambridge? Because if so, I'll stay  away....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta tell you, graduate school decisions on admissions are tricklin&#8217; into my mailbox, and LuboÅ¡ Motl has been my main experience of Harvard up to this point. I am not comfortable with the idea of enrolling there if the prevailing culture is exemplified by his tirades. It has nothing to do with his views on IQ, because I only stand to benefit by his views. I just want to do science without having to worry that I&#8217;m going to be impeded at every career milestone by similar conflict, obnoxiousness, arrogance, and demeaning comments.</p>
<p>Can someone tell me whether this is common in Cambridge? Because if so, I&#8217;ll stay  away&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14148</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 02:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14148</guid>
		<description>http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0221/p18s02-hfks.html

Genetic inabilities show themselves in large percentage differences while environmental and expectational differences  display themselves in smaller differences.

What is the difference in percentages concerning the percentage  of ducks that can fly verses the percentage of humans that can fly? 

What percentage of men have given birth?

How many women have prostate problems?

What percentage of humans can freely breathe Jupiter's atmosphere?

This is what encompasses genetic deficiencies. All those percentages show large gaps that are enormous.

The "twins" experiments that have two twins separated at birth that seem to follow the same path in different environments turns out to be an absurdity. None of the test subjects were separated into "different" environments at all. Someone raised in New York has the same environment as someone raised in Los Angeles. The differences are only spatial. Try raising one twin amongst gorillas in the rainforest without human contact at all for 40 years and compare him to his genetic twin in New York City and see how similar they turn out.

 The history of science has shown thousands of years of testing was done with an interest, to protect the ruling classes. Aristotle  no longer strangles us.

Astronomy Day is May 6 this year in Illinois and the number of blacks that have attended over the years has been disappointing but is climbing. In my past work environment next to no blacks showed an interest in the stars while my present one shows the majority are. 

Our club has seen a difference in African blacks' interest in the stars verses American blacks interest in the stars. Travels to Africa have always showed a great interest by all blacks who surround our telescopes in journeys there. The sun worshippers and the moon worshippers are thrilled to look through telescopes. Their religions all point them in that direction. American culture does not do that for American blacks. These are environmental differences.

What is the percentage of whites showing an interest in science? It is pretty low, just like all other races. All of us here are oddballs in our surroundings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0221/p18s02-hfks.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0221/p18s02-hfks.html</a></p>
<p>Genetic inabilities show themselves in large percentage differences while environmental and expectational differences  display themselves in smaller differences.</p>
<p>What is the difference in percentages concerning the percentage  of ducks that can fly verses the percentage of humans that can fly? </p>
<p>What percentage of men have given birth?</p>
<p>How many women have prostate problems?</p>
<p>What percentage of humans can freely breathe Jupiter&#8217;s atmosphere?</p>
<p>This is what encompasses genetic deficiencies. All those percentages show large gaps that are enormous.</p>
<p>The &#8220;twins&#8221; experiments that have two twins separated at birth that seem to follow the same path in different environments turns out to be an absurdity. None of the test subjects were separated into &#8220;different&#8221; environments at all. Someone raised in New York has the same environment as someone raised in Los Angeles. The differences are only spatial. Try raising one twin amongst gorillas in the rainforest without human contact at all for 40 years and compare him to his genetic twin in New York City and see how similar they turn out.</p>
<p> The history of science has shown thousands of years of testing was done with an interest, to protect the ruling classes. Aristotle  no longer strangles us.</p>
<p>Astronomy Day is May 6 this year in Illinois and the number of blacks that have attended over the years has been disappointing but is climbing. In my past work environment next to no blacks showed an interest in the stars while my present one shows the majority are. </p>
<p>Our club has seen a difference in African blacks&#8217; interest in the stars verses American blacks interest in the stars. Travels to Africa have always showed a great interest by all blacks who surround our telescopes in journeys there. The sun worshippers and the moon worshippers are thrilled to look through telescopes. Their religions all point them in that direction. American culture does not do that for American blacks. These are environmental differences.</p>
<p>What is the percentage of whites showing an interest in science? It is pretty low, just like all other races. All of us here are oddballs in our surroundings.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14131</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14131</guid>
		<description>To your latter paragraph.... yes. That's a big problem. People steroetype, and it filters into their expectations and their recommendations.


-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To your latter paragraph&#8230;. yes. That&#8217;s a big problem. People steroetype, and it filters into their expectations and their recommendations.</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quibbler</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14129</link>
		<dc:creator>Quibbler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14129</guid>
		<description>Cliff and Poppycock:

sorry, don't want too get too sidetracked.  Yes, I got what you were saying Cliff.  Grants/student loans still exist, but don't quite cover living costs, at least not now or where I study.  In Scotland, there are no top-up fees thus far, but there are matriculation fees for non-Scots, and graduation fees for Scots and EU students.  (i'm in Scotland).

However, it is also true that even if uni isn't actually *costing* you anything, you aren't earning much either.  I do know people (who would have gone to uni before Cliff) who weren't able to go to uni because they couldn't afford to because they needed an income right away.

Ok, I'm being pedantic, and I'm sorry.

Not to get too sidetracked though...

it seems sometimes to be the case with hispanics that hispanics are encouraged into jobs that lots of other hispanics do -- things like engineering and architecture.    is it similarly the case that black people are encouraged into fields that other black people are already in, like sports or entertainment?

--Q.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff and Poppycock:</p>
<p>sorry, don&#8217;t want too get too sidetracked.  Yes, I got what you were saying Cliff.  Grants/student loans still exist, but don&#8217;t quite cover living costs, at least not now or where I study.  In Scotland, there are no top-up fees thus far, but there are matriculation fees for non-Scots, and graduation fees for Scots and EU students.  (i&#8217;m in Scotland).</p>
<p>However, it is also true that even if uni isn&#8217;t actually *costing* you anything, you aren&#8217;t earning much either.  I do know people (who would have gone to uni before Cliff) who weren&#8217;t able to go to uni because they couldn&#8217;t afford to because they needed an income right away.</p>
<p>Ok, I&#8217;m being pedantic, and I&#8217;m sorry.</p>
<p>Not to get too sidetracked though&#8230;</p>
<p>it seems sometimes to be the case with hispanics that hispanics are encouraged into jobs that lots of other hispanics do &#8212; things like engineering and architecture.    is it similarly the case that black people are encouraged into fields that other black people are already in, like sports or entertainment?</p>
<p>&#8211;Q.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14112</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14112</guid>
		<description>Belizean,

While I am not disappointed to see Summers depart, I would hope that traditional notions of academic freedom as well as the first amendment would insulate Lubos' blog from any coming "purge". 

"I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" 

(normally attributed to Voltaire)

Elliot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belizean,</p>
<p>While I am not disappointed to see Summers depart, I would hope that traditional notions of academic freedom as well as the first amendment would insulate Lubos&#8217; blog from any coming &#8220;purge&#8221;. </p>
<p>&#8220;I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it&#8221; </p>
<p>(normally attributed to Voltaire)</p>
<p>Elliot</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Belizean</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14108</link>
		<dc:creator>Belizean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14108</guid>
		<description>Lubos,

I commend you for assuming risks to support the truth as you see it.

But don't you realize that now that Larry Summers has been forced to resign, it won't be long before you too fall victim to the coming purge for your fearless but impolitic posts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lubos,</p>
<p>I commend you for assuming risks to support the truth as you see it.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t you realize that now that Larry Summers has been forced to resign, it won&#8217;t be long before you too fall victim to the coming purge for your fearless but impolitic posts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14099</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14099</guid>
		<description>IrrationalPoint:- If you read my comment carefully you will see that I am talking about when I was a student. It was free. F-r-e-e. You got a grant that covered everything, fees and living expenses. All you had to do was study and get the grades. It is not so long ago, actually. So this is why we know that the problem is not entirely the cost of university.

Cheers,

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IrrationalPoint:- If you read my comment carefully you will see that I am talking about when I was a student. It was free. F-r-e-e. You got a grant that covered everything, fees and living expenses. All you had to do was study and get the grades. It is not so long ago, actually. So this is why we know that the problem is not entirely the cost of university.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Poppycock</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14095</link>
		<dc:creator>Poppycock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14095</guid>
		<description>IrrationalPoint: Just to set the record straight, there have been tuition fees at English universities for several years (since 1998). However, these were set at ~Â£1000 for all institutions, and whether or not you had to pay them was means-tested. In other words, you (and/or your parents) had to tell them how much you(they) earned and then you were told for how much of the tuition fees you were responsible. This also determined how much student loan you were entitled to. 

You are correct that the situation is changing - universities will be able to charge "top-up fees", ie higher tuition, from Autumn 2006.

Also note that in Scotland the situation is different.

Of course the cost is an issue, and I don't think Clifford denied that. So I think we all agree that it is a component but attitudes etc. are more significant. Just wanted to set the record straight with regards to the UK system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IrrationalPoint: Just to set the record straight, there have been tuition fees at English universities for several years (since 1998). However, these were set at ~Â£1000 for all institutions, and whether or not you had to pay them was means-tested. In other words, you (and/or your parents) had to tell them how much you(they) earned and then you were told for how much of the tuition fees you were responsible. This also determined how much student loan you were entitled to. </p>
<p>You are correct that the situation is changing - universities will be able to charge &#8220;top-up fees&#8221;, ie higher tuition, from Autumn 2006.</p>
<p>Also note that in Scotland the situation is different.</p>
<p>Of course the cost is an issue, and I don&#8217;t think Clifford denied that. So I think we all agree that it is a component but attitudes etc. are more significant. Just wanted to set the record straight with regards to the UK system.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14087</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14087</guid>
		<description>okay Jacque,

I'll bite. What is Lubos's IQ? Elliot, what is yours?

I would like to know if these numbers should influence what we are reading? 

If there are going to be clear indications, that brilliance, has been touched for a momentary, irregardless, will there be an unintentional sliding back too, reverberate back too "earthy based principles" of genetics of science, becuase of some genetic process in their thinking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>okay Jacque,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bite. What is Lubos&#8217;s IQ? Elliot, what is yours?</p>
<p>I would like to know if these numbers should influence what we are reading? </p>
<p>If there are going to be clear indications, that brilliance, has been touched for a momentary, irregardless, will there be an unintentional sliding back too, reverberate back too &#8220;earthy based principles&#8221; of genetics of science, becuase of some genetic process in their thinking?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: IrrationalPoint</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14083</link>
		<dc:creator>IrrationalPoint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14083</guid>
		<description>Cliff:

While it's true that the access issue isn't nearly as simple as being about the *cost* of a university degree, it is not true that a university education in the UK is free or that cost isn't an access issue.  While it is true that there are no official "tuition fees" for students who finished HS before 2006, the majority of universities have been charging "matriculation fees" or "graduation fees" for years.  And living expenses are a big cost, especially given the current housing market.  And tuitiion fees are now being introduced in England.  Cost *is* an access issue.

But the specific problem that faces black people, as you pointed out, isn't so much the financial cost, as it's people's attitudes towards and expectations of black people.

--Q.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff:</p>
<p>While it&#8217;s true that the access issue isn&#8217;t nearly as simple as being about the *cost* of a university degree, it is not true that a university education in the UK is free or that cost isn&#8217;t an access issue.  While it is true that there are no official &#8220;tuition fees&#8221; for students who finished HS before 2006, the majority of universities have been charging &#8220;matriculation fees&#8221; or &#8220;graduation fees&#8221; for years.  And living expenses are a big cost, especially given the current housing market.  And tuitiion fees are now being introduced in England.  Cost *is* an access issue.</p>
<p>But the specific problem that faces black people, as you pointed out, isn&#8217;t so much the financial cost, as it&#8217;s people&#8217;s attitudes towards and expectations of black people.</p>
<p>&#8211;Q.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacques Distler</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/02/18/black-scientists/#comment-14081</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Distler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/?p=655#comment-14081</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You need to pay attention to details. That would improve your chances for that Nobel Prize ;)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah, details...

Ever wonder what the 95% confidence levels are on the (already flawed, for the reasons you delineated) IQ statistics Lubo&#353; bandies about are? There's a reason he never mentions those...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You need to pay attention to details. That would improve your chances for that Nobel Prize <img src='http://cosmicvariance.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, details&#8230;</p>
<p>Ever wonder what the 95% confidence levels are on the (already flawed, for the reasons you delineated) IQ statistics Lubo&scaron; bandies about are? There&#8217;s a reason he never mentions those&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
