Comments on: Relax, Young Physicists; Relax

By: Nils

Nils — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 18:49:25 +0000

Unfortunately these crazy hour working is not limited to research in the US. Working as a physicist at one of europe’s particle accelerators most of our senior people and some of the more junior people work all days, spending a lot more than 60 hours per week on the job. Most of the time they are working highly unefficient, a lot of time goes away in unneccessary meetings. As most of them limit their social life also to their colleagues, they basically never leave work.

In my experience this is dangerous. You stay with your ideas, your creativity is very limited. I get my best Ideas, when I am not working or after I spent some time doing something else. Staying within your working environment prevents you from getting a fresh view on your tasks.

And having tried both, working crazy hours and working with taking time off inbetween, I think I am doing more and better work with the latter.

Physics is interesting, can be fun, can provide humanity with important knowledge, but there is more to life… (at least I hope;-) )

By: citrine

citrine — Mon, 02 Jan 2006 02:00:06 +0000

Juan,

I don’t see Sean’s or Mark’s comments as suggesting that we party instead of working hard. I think the point of this posting is that we should take a little time off now and then to maintain our sanity and recharge our batteries (neurons?).

By: Alejandro Rivero

Alejandro Rivero — Sun, 01 Jan 2006 05:19:47 +0000

Sean, the point is that by suggesting students to relax from the job, you are implying it is a job.

By: El último hovercraft » Campanadas en un VAX

El último hovercraft » Campanadas en un VAX — Sun, 01 Jan 2006 05:15:12 +0000

[...] Me ha venido a la memoria por dos motivos. Uno, que con los rollos de la compilacion cruzada para ARM se me esta viniendo la madrugada tambien. Dos, que hace poco lei un desafortunado mensaje de un cosmologo donde recomendaba a los estudiantes de doctorado que se tomaran sus tesis y postdocs como un trabajo. Y que por tanto tuvieran horarios y vacaciones y todo eso que es necesario que tenga un trabajo… [...]

By: Juan

Juan — Sun, 01 Jan 2006 02:57:01 +0000

OK, I will take my words back. Should not be a tatoo, but instead seared on the buttocks, font size allowing.

Sean, for xst sake, you got me blogging and enjoying it, gotta stop this madness!

ALL THE BEST FOR 2006!!!

By: Sean

Sean — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:29:52 +0000

Juan, you are crazy (as you know). It’s good that crazy people like you exist, but I don’t want to be one of them. You think I am working hard at science for the common good? I’m here because I love doing research, but I love other things too. It really is possible to be a good scientist and also enjoy your life — I would recommend it without apology.

By: Juan

Juan — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:41:41 +0000

Or, in more tragic words:

http://www.bartleby.com/250/171.html

PS: A tatoo of these should be made a requirement for admission to graduate schools in physics. In a perfect world.

Just being facetious. Maybe not.

By: Juan

Juan — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:20:14 +0000

Sounds like you are suggesting rearing a generation of, if I may use the British term, wankers.

There is a reason why the US is and hopefully shall remain the leader in science and technology (among other fronts). In this country we are defined by our jobs, so much more than anywhere else on Earth. Ergomania can be looked at as a virtue or defect of character, and you and I evidently strongly disagree on the point.

You describe the “crazy hours” as a mere facade. I am convinced that this is not true. The reason being that I was born an eurobranleur myself, having pulled my hair out -professionally speaking- in no less than three European countries, surrounded by masses of bon viveurs. Manhana, manhana, tomorrow.

Look at it from another angle. The hours you spend on this planet as a diletantte profit you and maybe (not necessarily) your innermost circle. The “crazy hours” spent on science are all for the common good.

I think you are doing your students an disfavor in trying to pass on this attitude. Unless they can all find jobs in Europe.

By: Julianne

Julianne — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:28:25 +0000

Katherine — My advice is to measure your time by goals rather than hours. What your advisor wants to see is scientific progress. If my students show me a steady stream of interesting, well-thought out plots and demonstrate that they’re thinking about the results, I don’t care if it took them 4 hours a day or 16 hours a day to get there. On the other hand, if they’re spinning their wheels, mostly doing small incremental things without focussing on the science, I don’t care if they spent 20 hours a day — they’re just drifting and I’d much rather they get something solid done. If you don’t feel yourself pushing towards some publishable result, then you might need to alter your style of work, which is not the same as “working harder”.

But that’s just me. Your advisor might just be a freak!

By: Katherine

Katherine — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:59:25 +0000

Hey Mark -

I am a grad student and am definitely guilty of working too hard. How does one share this enlightened point of view with an overexcited advisor who believes that a work day is not successful unless you have worked 16 hours. How do I reclaim my relaxation time?

By: Richard E.

Richard E. — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:56:54 +0000

I heartily second Mark’s comments here. Especially the ones about crackling.

By: chuko

chuko — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:40:59 +0000

Richard Fortey said something about this in his book on paleontology - “Life”. His take was that they were equally dubious positions. In the US version, you’re supposed to look busy, even when you aren’t. In the UK, you were supposed to appear to do nothing at all, but just produce because you were such a genius.

By: citrine

citrine — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:49:52 +0000

Having once had a cat companion for 22 years, I would say the most likely culprit was someone who peed on someoneâ€™s keyboard or bed.

Richard

*******************************************************

Well, if you had it for 22 years that’s bound to happen.

By: Dick Thompson

Dick Thompson — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:47:34 +0000

I recall that the mathematician G.H. Hardy would spend his mornings (4 hours a day) “at work” and his afternoons playing cricket with his friends. Of course as a don he had little purely professorial work to get through. And we know that Poincare had his hiking holidays, which proved so very enhancing.

Stupid conjecture: Creativity taps our inherited “young batchelor” primate traits (which can of course be inherited by women as well as men) and is enhanced by periodic recurrence to the original state, time with chums, preferably outdoors, and sufficiently absorbing that you don’t continue to fuss over problems in your research.

By: Alejandro Rivero

Alejandro Rivero — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:36:59 +0000

Nego. A decent research institution should have the posibility to go to the Library and usint seminars rooms 7/7, 24/24. I have enjoyed a lot studying in the floor of a nightly library or discussing papers a saturday night. I agree on relaxing against competitive demostrations, either “sucess or perish” career path or just ego shows.

But about research, please do not relax. I know a mathematician (Fields medalm btw) who has arranged a shelf layer in the back of his car, so he can travel with a minimum bibliography. Alternatively, you can look for .djvu scans of the books and rely on the ArXiV and an eBook reader. Happy holidays.

By: Eugene

Eugene — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:10:13 +0000

Here is my life philosophy, and it is not just about work too!

First Fig

My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends–
It gives a lovely light!

Edna St. Vincent Millay

By: Amara

Amara — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:48:17 +0000

I would add another facet that if one doesn’t learn to have good down time, then the human body will find ways to demonstrate that you need down time. The human body and mind is not built to work insanely (and/or with stress) for sustained periods of time. You can get away with it for a little while when you are young, but eventually it catches up with you. I don’t know how many in the US culture grasp this aspect of good health; my experience from the 38 years I lived there, is that not enough people do.

By: robert

robert — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:28:47 +0000

Hailing from England, and being old enough to have secured tenure, you may recall that ‘Frankie says Relax’, and look what happened to him. I’m not aware of any data but cannot help but wonder whether there is a correlation (negative or otherwise) between frantic toil in one’s youth and continued interest and productivity in one’s field of choice in later life?

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:59:12 +0000

Hi tom fish. I don’t know. I haven’t deleted any comments on this thread and a previous comment of yours hasn’t been forwarded to me for a decision about its appropriateness. Sorry - don’t know what happened.

Please try posting again. If it fails again then please email me to let me know and email me the comment and I’ll try to post it for you (Unless it’s entirely inappropriate). Sorry for the inconvenience.

By: Dissident

Dissident — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:58:27 +0000

Mark, how dare you agree with me? Is this some kind of new, subtle anti-Dissident tactic?

Happy new relaxed year!