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	<title>Comments on: Does the Earth move around the Sun?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Humankind&#8217;s Basic Picture of the Universe &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-134059</link>
		<dc:creator>Humankind&#8217;s Basic Picture of the Universe &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 04:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-134059</guid>
		<description>[...] There are important issues of empiricism vs. idealism here. The kinds of questions addressed by &#8220;theoretical computer science&#8221; are in fact logical questions, addressable on the basis of pure mathematics. They are true of any conceivable world, not just the actual world in which we happen to live. What physics teaches us about, on the other hand, are empirical features of the contingent world in which we find ourselves &#8212; features that didn&#8217;t have to be true a priori. Spacetime didn&#8217;t have to be curved, after all; for that matter, the Earth didn&#8217;t have to go around the Sun (to the extent that it does). Those are just things that appear to be true of our universe, at least locally. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There are important issues of empiricism vs. idealism here. The kinds of questions addressed by &#8220;theoretical computer science&#8221; are in fact logical questions, addressable on the basis of pure mathematics. They are true of any conceivable world, not just the actual world in which we happen to live. What physics teaches us about, on the other hand, are empirical features of the contingent world in which we find ourselves &#8212; features that didn&#8217;t have to be true a priori. Spacetime didn&#8217;t have to be curved, after all; for that matter, the Earth didn&#8217;t have to go around the Sun (to the extent that it does). Those are just things that appear to be true of our universe, at least locally. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nikita</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-16463</link>
		<dc:creator>nikita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 14:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-16463</guid>
		<description>see every body knows that the earth takes revolution around the sun and thats true why we should beconfused in such a question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>see every body knows that the earth takes revolution around the sun and thats true why we should beconfused in such a question.</p>
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		<title>By: rosey</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-6982</link>
		<dc:creator>rosey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-6982</guid>
		<description>cows are mad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cows are mad</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-6981</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-6981</guid>
		<description>How many  miles is the  atmosphere from the earth's  surface?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many  miles is the  atmosphere from the earth&#8217;s  surface?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wyatt</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4815</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wyatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2005 01:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4815</guid>
		<description>I have put together a three part series on geocentrism. The first two parts are dealing with science, and the third deals with the Church position. Take a look.

Go to www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

Geocentricity 101: A beginner's Course
Geocentricity 101, Part I: Basic Principles 
Geocentricity 101, Part II: Basic Physics 
Geocentricity 101, Part III: Scriptural and Church Position 

Mark Wyatt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have put together a three part series on geocentrism. The first two parts are dealing with science, and the third deals with the Church position. Take a look.</p>
<p>Go to <a href="http://www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com</a></p>
<p>Geocentricity 101: A beginner&#8217;s Course<br />
Geocentricity 101, Part I: Basic Principles<br />
Geocentricity 101, Part II: Basic Physics<br />
Geocentricity 101, Part III: Scriptural and Church Position </p>
<p>Mark Wyatt</p>
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		<title>By: bittergradstudent</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4641</link>
		<dc:creator>bittergradstudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4641</guid>
		<description>Belizean:

Mach's principle makes explicit reference to "distant stars."--i.e., objects infinitely far away.  It then picks out a preferred reference frame by demanding stationarity with respect to these.  

A priori, there is no reason to postulate the existence of such objects (in fact, until recently, it was reasonable to believe that the universe might have a finite volume, and therefore, a finite "maximal" diameter).  

The equivalence principle is essentially a statemetn that there is no such thing as absolute acceleration--acceleration and four dimensional curvature are interchangeable concepts (speaking &lt;b&gt;very&lt;/b&gt; loosely, find a coordinate system where F/m is the same as the Christoffel symbols).  Hence, in GR, there are only equivalence classes of inertial reference frames (i.e., sets of frames which do not accelerate with respect to each other), rather than an absolute notion of  inertial/non-inertial.  That is, unless you invoke something like Mach's principle, or a Geocentric principle, or a Heliocentric principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belizean:</p>
<p>Mach&#8217;s principle makes explicit reference to &#8220;distant stars.&#8221;&#8211;i.e., objects infinitely far away.  It then picks out a preferred reference frame by demanding stationarity with respect to these.  </p>
<p>A priori, there is no reason to postulate the existence of such objects (in fact, until recently, it was reasonable to believe that the universe might have a finite volume, and therefore, a finite &#8220;maximal&#8221; diameter).  </p>
<p>The equivalence principle is essentially a statemetn that there is no such thing as absolute acceleration&#8211;acceleration and four dimensional curvature are interchangeable concepts (speaking <b>very</b> loosely, find a coordinate system where F/m is the same as the Christoffel symbols).  Hence, in GR, there are only equivalence classes of inertial reference frames (i.e., sets of frames which do not accelerate with respect to each other), rather than an absolute notion of  inertial/non-inertial.  That is, unless you invoke something like Mach&#8217;s principle, or a Geocentric principle, or a Heliocentric principle.</p>
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		<title>By: Belizean</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4538</link>
		<dc:creator>Belizean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4538</guid>
		<description>This is related to the old issue of Mach's Principle in GR.

Even though things LOOK the same, you CAN tell the difference between 1) the stars spinning about you, and 2) your body spinning at the same angular rate.

So Mach's Principle is not part of GR (even though it motivated Einstein).

And inertial reference frames have a preferred place in the theory in the sense that they are all connected by the modern version of the Equivalence Principle in a way that accelerated frames are not.

Hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun, because the former's acceleration well exceeds the latter's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is related to the old issue of Mach&#8217;s Principle in GR.</p>
<p>Even though things LOOK the same, you CAN tell the difference between 1) the stars spinning about you, and 2) your body spinning at the same angular rate.</p>
<p>So Mach&#8217;s Principle is not part of GR (even though it motivated Einstein).</p>
<p>And inertial reference frames have a preferred place in the theory in the sense that they are all connected by the modern version of the Equivalence Principle in a way that accelerated frames are not.</p>
<p>Hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun, because the former&#8217;s acceleration well exceeds the latter&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4507</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4507</guid>
		<description>Oh yes, I meant to ask Sean: What is a "dark energy task force?" Sounds scary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yes, I meant to ask Sean: What is a &#8220;dark energy task force?&#8221; Sounds scary.</p>
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		<title>By: agm</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4503</link>
		<dc:creator>agm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 04:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4503</guid>
		<description>In the right reference frame, both the earth and the sun revolve around the server hosting this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the right reference frame, both the earth and the sun revolve around the server hosting this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Plait</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4501</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Plait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 03:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4501</guid>
		<description>As it happens, I get real live geocentrists trying to use GR to claim that geocentrism is just as valid as heliocentrism. I find that amusing, because what they are really trying to show is that geocentrism is really the One True Way. It got so bad on my old bulletin board I wrote a FAQ for it:

Geocentrism, as advocated by creationists or other religiously fundamental people, is certainly wrong.

How, you may ask? What is going on is that you can do a change of reference frame to a geocentric one, and by relativity the math must still work out. I readily admit that. I do not understand all the math involved, but I will take it for granted that it works out, and that physically, geocentrism is just as valid as, say, heliocentrism.

But note the words "just as valid". Also, by relativity, it cannot be any more valid; geocentrism is just another change of frame (although to a non-inertial one).

What geocentrists are saying is that geocentrism is the one, true frame. Creationists must say that because that is what is says in the bible. Now pay attention here, because this is the important bit: to say geocentrism isn't wrong, you have to accept the premise that any frame of reference is just as valid as any other. But to claim that geocentrism is correct, you have to ignore that very same premise.

Geocentrism as the One True Way is therefore self-contradictory. It doesn't work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As it happens, I get real live geocentrists trying to use GR to claim that geocentrism is just as valid as heliocentrism. I find that amusing, because what they are really trying to show is that geocentrism is really the One True Way. It got so bad on my old bulletin board I wrote a FAQ for it:</p>
<p>Geocentrism, as advocated by creationists or other religiously fundamental people, is certainly wrong.</p>
<p>How, you may ask? What is going on is that you can do a change of reference frame to a geocentric one, and by relativity the math must still work out. I readily admit that. I do not understand all the math involved, but I will take it for granted that it works out, and that physically, geocentrism is just as valid as, say, heliocentrism.</p>
<p>But note the words &#8220;just as valid&#8221;. Also, by relativity, it cannot be any more valid; geocentrism is just another change of frame (although to a non-inertial one).</p>
<p>What geocentrists are saying is that geocentrism is the one, true frame. Creationists must say that because that is what is says in the bible. Now pay attention here, because this is the important bit: to say geocentrism isn&#8217;t wrong, you have to accept the premise that any frame of reference is just as valid as any other. But to claim that geocentrism is correct, you have to ignore that very same premise.</p>
<p>Geocentrism as the One True Way is therefore self-contradictory. It doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: spyder</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4499</link>
		<dc:creator>spyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4499</guid>
		<description>Not that it matters so much now that we use GPS systems with which to navigate, but having had to learn celestial navigation in them "old" days, i always wondered if such knowlege would have been fully realized in the "euro-west" had we remained obstinately stubborn about terra-centrism????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that it matters so much now that we use GPS systems with which to navigate, but having had to learn celestial navigation in them &#8220;old&#8221; days, i always wondered if such knowlege would have been fully realized in the &#8220;euro-west&#8221; had we remained obstinately stubborn about terra-centrism????</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4492</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4492</guid>
		<description>OK, I concede that the question depends on your interpretation of "goes around". My definition has nothing to do with coordinate systems --- just look at the worldlines and you will see by inspection which one is "going around" the other. One point I do want to insist on though: it makes no difference whether we are talking about SR or GR here, because you are just as free to make arbitrary choices of coordinates in SR as in GR.
And yes, I did realize that bittergradstudent was joking :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I concede that the question depends on your interpretation of &#8220;goes around&#8221;. My definition has nothing to do with coordinate systems &#8212; just look at the worldlines and you will see by inspection which one is &#8220;going around&#8221; the other. One point I do want to insist on though: it makes no difference whether we are talking about SR or GR here, because you are just as free to make arbitrary choices of coordinates in SR as in GR.<br />
And yes, I did realize that bittergradstudent was joking <img src='http://cosmicvariance.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4464</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4464</guid>
		<description>bittergradstudent, yes, I was thinking just of the enormous and unglamorous work that goes into establishing a good coordinate system for practical astronomy, solar system navigation, etc., etc..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bittergradstudent, yes, I was thinking just of the enormous and unglamorous work that goes into establishing a good coordinate system for practical astronomy, solar system navigation, etc., etc..</p>
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		<title>By: bittergradstudent</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4446</link>
		<dc:creator>bittergradstudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4446</guid>
		<description>Arun:  if you do that, you can sometimes obscure physics of nearby objects.  Take the Schwarzschild metric, given in its standard form.  This metric is easily derived from the Einstein Equations by requiring vacuum and "stationarity with respect to distant objects (i.e., that the metric be asymptotically Minkowski).  

This metric, however, looks very awful in the neighborhood of the black hole horizon.  For a sufficently large mass black hole, however, you can show that a local observer doesn't really observe any significant effects as (s)he crosses the r = 2M threshold.  

In the Schwarzchild coordinates, this seems extremely puzzling, but switching to a coordinate system in which the time coordinate is (roughly) given by the proper time elapsed by a family of geodesically infalling observers (or null light rays), it can be shown that the singular behavior of the metric at the horizon completely evaporates.  The price?  The loss of the convenient interpretation of the metric components near infinity.  

So, my point is, what coordinate system is best depends on what type of calculation you are doing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arun:  if you do that, you can sometimes obscure physics of nearby objects.  Take the Schwarzschild metric, given in its standard form.  This metric is easily derived from the Einstein Equations by requiring vacuum and &#8220;stationarity with respect to distant objects (i.e., that the metric be asymptotically Minkowski).  </p>
<p>This metric, however, looks very awful in the neighborhood of the black hole horizon.  For a sufficently large mass black hole, however, you can show that a local observer doesn&#8217;t really observe any significant effects as (s)he crosses the r = 2M threshold.  </p>
<p>In the Schwarzchild coordinates, this seems extremely puzzling, but switching to a coordinate system in which the time coordinate is (roughly) given by the proper time elapsed by a family of geodesically infalling observers (or null light rays), it can be shown that the singular behavior of the metric at the horizon completely evaporates.  The price?  The loss of the convenient interpretation of the metric components near infinity.  </p>
<p>So, my point is, what coordinate system is best depends on what type of calculation you are doing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4445</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4445</guid>
		<description>Since we have to set up a reference frame w.r.t. something, setting up the frame w.r.t.  far away things wins out.   While GR says there is no "more natural global coordinate system - inertial or otherwise",  in practice, each time we discovered one more term in earth's wobbly rotation, we'd have to revise all our calculations. It is simpler to fix a coordinate frame w.r.t things that are distant and virtually unmoving.  (That is why theory remains theory, and experimental or observational usage is what makes physics into a science.)

In a reference frame with simpler motion w.r.t. to distant stars or to the CMB, the  Sun's reference frame wins out  over the Earth's reference frame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since we have to set up a reference frame w.r.t. something, setting up the frame w.r.t.  far away things wins out.   While GR says there is no &#8220;more natural global coordinate system - inertial or otherwise&#8221;,  in practice, each time we discovered one more term in earth&#8217;s wobbly rotation, we&#8217;d have to revise all our calculations. It is simpler to fix a coordinate frame w.r.t things that are distant and virtually unmoving.  (That is why theory remains theory, and experimental or observational usage is what makes physics into a science.)</p>
<p>In a reference frame with simpler motion w.r.t. to distant stars or to the CMB, the  Sun&#8217;s reference frame wins out  over the Earth&#8217;s reference frame.</p>
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		<title>By: thomasmarquart.net</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4432</link>
		<dc:creator>thomasmarquart.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4432</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Does the sun go around the earth after all?&lt;/strong&gt;

I have been thinking abou writing about this a while ago, when I got a phone call with exactly this question (sitting in an astronomy department makes you get all kinds of phone-calls), but I then forgot about it. Over at Cosmic Variance, they have done i</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Does the sun go around the earth after all?</strong></p>
<p>I have been thinking abou writing about this a while ago, when I got a phone call with exactly this question (sitting in an astronomy department makes you get all kinds of phone-calls), but I then forgot about it. Over at Cosmic Variance, they have done i</p>
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		<title>By: bittergradstudent</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4426</link>
		<dc:creator>bittergradstudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4426</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Sean, for explaining my point better than I could, and bailing out my sad attempt at humor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Sean, for explaining my point better than I could, and bailing out my sad attempt at humor.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4425</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4425</guid>
		<description>Yes, but by "Earth stationary at the center" I really meant it.  I.e. a coordinate system which rotates with the Earth.  Since, after all, if the Sun moves around the Earth, it does so once per (solar) day, not once per year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but by &#8220;Earth stationary at the center&#8221; I really meant it.  I.e. a coordinate system which rotates with the Earth.  Since, after all, if the Sun moves around the Earth, it does so once per (solar) day, not once per year.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex R</title>
		<link>http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4424</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/10/03/does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun/#comment-4424</guid>
		<description>Quibble.  You write: &lt;i&gt;Of course we could still imagine some global frame with the Earth stationary at the center; in fact, such geocentric reference frames are often quite useful. But it wouldnâ€™t be inertial, as we could easily tell by the existence of Coriolis forces (as measured for example by Foucaultâ€™s pendulum). That is the sense in which itâ€™s â€œreallyâ€ the Earth that goes around the Sun, not vice-versa.&lt;/i&gt;

As you should know, the Coriolis forces that we usually measure, such as with Foucault's Pendulum,  are due to the once-per-&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day" rel="nofollow"&gt;sidereal-day&lt;/a&gt; *rotation* of the reference frame that is fixed with respect to the Earth's surface, not (to first approximation) the once-per-year *orbit* of the Earth around the sun.

If we were to do experiments in a non-rotating frame which was fixed with respect to the center of mass of the Earth, we could presumably also measure its departures from being inertial, but they would be substantially smaller than the effect of rotation with respect to the fixed stars seen by Foucault's pendulum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quibble.  You write: <i>Of course we could still imagine some global frame with the Earth stationary at the center; in fact, such geocentric reference frames are often quite useful. But it wouldnâ€™t be inertial, as we could easily tell by the existence of Coriolis forces (as measured for example by Foucaultâ€™s pendulum). That is the sense in which itâ€™s â€œreallyâ€ the Earth that goes around the Sun, not vice-versa.</i></p>
<p>As you should know, the Coriolis forces that we usually measure, such as with Foucault&#8217;s Pendulum,  are due to the once-per-<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day" rel="nofollow">sidereal-day</a> *rotation* of the reference frame that is fixed with respect to the Earth&#8217;s surface, not (to first approximation) the once-per-year *orbit* of the Earth around the sun.</p>
<p>If we were to do experiments in a non-rotating frame which was fixed with respect to the center of mass of the Earth, we could presumably also measure its departures from being inertial, but they would be substantially smaller than the effect of rotation with respect to the fixed stars seen by Foucault&#8217;s pendulum.</p>
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